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I know why the fanbase is so split on Derek Carr
Posted on 2/10/23 at 4:48 pm
Posted on 2/10/23 at 4:48 pm
Besides the endless threads and bitching on whether or not he's good or not, it boils down to two things for most fans.
Scenario 1: Most fans want us to whiff on Carr so we get stuck with Dalton, waste some prime years left on the studs we do have left in order for DA to get canned so we can hire a real coach and draft a QB of the future and a more offensive minded HC. I totally get wanting this. I was one of these up until a few days ago.
Scenario 2: Other fans are hoping that you make the push for Carr, praying that above average to good QB play which he is capable of (not elite play, but good) can help you get into the playoffs and maybe some magic happens with a top tier defense like we have had under DA for a while now. And magic has happened in the playoffs before. Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, Jared Goff, Jimmy G and Nick Foles have made it to the damn Super Bowl before. If they can do it, so can Carr. So some portion of fans are OK and are acceptable of trying to be like the Ravens were with Joe Flacco from 2008-2014, even if that means suffering through Dennis Allen and delaying a rebuild. Actually, Joe Flacco's first 5 years in the league is ultimately what we should hope for and is entirely plausible with Carr. Here were Flacco's stats his first 5 years in the league and the Ravens corresponding record/playoff finish
2008: 2900 yards/14TDs/12INTs (11-5 record, lost in AFCCG)
2009: 3600 yards/21TDS/12INTS (9-7 record, lost in Divisional)
2010: 3600 yards/25TDS/10INTS (12-4 record, lost in Divisional)
2011: 3600 yards/20TDS/12INTS (12-4 record, lost in AFCCG)
2012: 3800 yards/22TDS/10INTs (10-6 record, Super Bowl Champions)
None of those years were what you would say top 10 play from Flacco and I think we would all agree Carr has put up better numbers and is slightly better than Flacco. Now I'm not saying our D is as good as what those Ravens D's were, but they can get there, especially if we hit on some defensive draft picks and at least there is some consistency in DA fielding good defenses.
Scenario 1: Most fans want us to whiff on Carr so we get stuck with Dalton, waste some prime years left on the studs we do have left in order for DA to get canned so we can hire a real coach and draft a QB of the future and a more offensive minded HC. I totally get wanting this. I was one of these up until a few days ago.
Scenario 2: Other fans are hoping that you make the push for Carr, praying that above average to good QB play which he is capable of (not elite play, but good) can help you get into the playoffs and maybe some magic happens with a top tier defense like we have had under DA for a while now. And magic has happened in the playoffs before. Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, Jared Goff, Jimmy G and Nick Foles have made it to the damn Super Bowl before. If they can do it, so can Carr. So some portion of fans are OK and are acceptable of trying to be like the Ravens were with Joe Flacco from 2008-2014, even if that means suffering through Dennis Allen and delaying a rebuild. Actually, Joe Flacco's first 5 years in the league is ultimately what we should hope for and is entirely plausible with Carr. Here were Flacco's stats his first 5 years in the league and the Ravens corresponding record/playoff finish
2008: 2900 yards/14TDs/12INTs (11-5 record, lost in AFCCG)
2009: 3600 yards/21TDS/12INTS (9-7 record, lost in Divisional)
2010: 3600 yards/25TDS/10INTS (12-4 record, lost in Divisional)
2011: 3600 yards/20TDS/12INTS (12-4 record, lost in AFCCG)
2012: 3800 yards/22TDS/10INTs (10-6 record, Super Bowl Champions)
None of those years were what you would say top 10 play from Flacco and I think we would all agree Carr has put up better numbers and is slightly better than Flacco. Now I'm not saying our D is as good as what those Ravens D's were, but they can get there, especially if we hit on some defensive draft picks and at least there is some consistency in DA fielding good defenses.
12
Posted on 2/10/23 at 5:12 pm to WicKed WayZ
Scenario 2, except Carr is much, MUCH more talented and capable than Flacco was.
Posted on 2/10/23 at 5:15 pm to blackandgolddude
How would Carr do in an offense without the best RB in the league?
A phenomenal RB like Jacobs helps a QB on so many levels.
A phenomenal RB like Jacobs helps a QB on so many levels.
Posted on 2/10/23 at 5:24 pm to WicKed WayZ
I don't wanna spend >30mil annually or spending a pick higher than the 3rd round.
We have holes that's the issue, we need to address them and both of those can be useful (cap space and picks)
We have holes that's the issue, we need to address them and both of those can be useful (cap space and picks)
Posted on 2/10/23 at 5:29 pm to Paul Allen
quote:
How would Carr do in an offense without the best RB in the league?
A phenomenal RB like Jacobs helps a QB on so many levels.
Jacobs isn't the best running back in the league. Carr was performing well without jacobs.
Posted on 2/10/23 at 5:40 pm to WicKed WayZ
Mostly I think it boils down to
Posted on 2/10/23 at 5:44 pm to WaterLink
I just think at some point the Raiders will waive him. That’s when you make an offer. He’s not a superstar so you don’t overcompensate the Raiders and if he hits free agency you don’t make your cap situation even worse.
Posted on 2/10/23 at 5:46 pm to Chalkywhite84
Exactly. Jacobs is good but he hasn’t done much outside of this year and Carr has been keeping them average with that defense being 24th or worse during most of his time there.
Brees didn’t do shite from 2014-2016 while our D struggled
Brees didn’t do shite from 2014-2016 while our D struggled
Posted on 2/10/23 at 7:14 pm to blackandgolddude
quote:
Scenario 2, except Carr is much, MUCH more talented and capable than Flacco was.
Flacco won a superbowl, so this is ridiculous.
Pump the breaks.
Posted on 2/10/23 at 7:46 pm to WicKed WayZ
Because while he will win a few games with his arm he will lose a few games with his decision making
Posted on 2/10/23 at 7:59 pm to WicKed WayZ
This is a good post imo and upvote from me.
I've been on both sides of the scenarios as well.
I've been on both sides of the scenarios as well.
Posted on 2/10/23 at 9:15 pm to WicKed WayZ
I’d love to have Carr.
I think Carr with the current coaching staff is going to be really meh.
I think Carr and the current staff with more of the same cap manipulation and money pushing is just going to result in us bottoming out anyway.
I’d rather us just get financially stable for once and actually have a staff that will build for the future. Carr seems like a massive attempt at a bandaid and we’re just going to be a worse version of the Brees twilight years.
I think Carr with the current coaching staff is going to be really meh.
I think Carr and the current staff with more of the same cap manipulation and money pushing is just going to result in us bottoming out anyway.
I’d rather us just get financially stable for once and actually have a staff that will build for the future. Carr seems like a massive attempt at a bandaid and we’re just going to be a worse version of the Brees twilight years.
This post was edited on 2/10/23 at 9:17 pm
Posted on 2/10/23 at 9:39 pm to St Augustine
It’s certainly possible. But it’s also possible Carmichael finds an old grove with a competent QB again and DA keeps the D elite and we have some success the next few years
Posted on 2/10/23 at 9:41 pm to htran90
Change that to 5th round & I agree.
Posted on 2/10/23 at 9:47 pm to WicKed WayZ
quote:
: Most fans want us to whiff on Carr so we get stuck with Dalton, waste some prime years left on the studs we do have l
You lost me right at the start.
Posted on 2/10/23 at 10:01 pm to St Augustine
quote:
I think Carr with the current coaching staff is going to be really meh.
I think Carr and the current staff with more of the same cap manipulation and money pushing is just going to result in us bottoming out anyway.
I’d rather us just get financially stable for once and actually have a staff that will build for the future. Carr seems like a massive attempt at a bandaid and we’re just going to be a worse version of the Brees twilight years.
Very fair points and outlooks. Agreed on all counts.
Carr is not that guy.
Posted on 2/11/23 at 1:01 am to St Augustine
quote:
I’d rather us just get financially stable for once and actually have a staff that will build for the future. Carr seems like a massive attempt at a bandaid and we’re just going to be a worse version of the Brees twilight years.
I don't think you are going to see that under mickey loomis. This is their way of doing business.
They put dummy years in contracts that don't even need dummy years. It's gotten out of hand at this point.
Posted on 2/11/23 at 1:05 am to WicKed WayZ
Defense is good but not great right now, run defense has been really bad last 2 years. I'm still good with Carr but the defense needs tk improve to be super bowl worthy.
Posted on 2/11/23 at 5:53 am to WicKed WayZ
No sean payton to make him look good
Posted on 2/11/23 at 6:36 am to WicKed WayZ
The whole tank for a high draft pick is such a loser mentality. It is the organizations job to put the best product that they can possibly put on the field every year. Carr is the best available QB that we could realistically get. Will he work out? Maybe or maybe not. If this deal goes through that we are heavy favorites to win the division and if you get into the playoffs than who knows. The Raiders may have moved to Vegas ,but they are still a very dysfunctional organization. I am not saying he doesn't deserve some blame ,but there are few franchises that have straight up squandered talent and this franchise is one of them. A high draft pick is not a sure thing and if he costs us a 3rd than who gives a shite? If it is possible than get him.
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