re: Social Security - Help me understand better

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So is the second one. I’m not sure why you’re having a meltdown; I linked to the SS page. It’s not as if I was putting out false information, you just made a poor assumption about the part I disagreed with.

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Let me extend you an olive branch.

If your whole point is that you were right that some orphans never paid into social security but are receiving benefits, you are correct.

There’s an insignificant percentage of people in this country that have, by choice, not paid into social security but are still receiving benefits. Do you agree or disagree?

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Who needs more ss money at age 70? Take it early for less money and enjoy life if you planned ahead while working

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Wealthy people trying to build generational wealth.

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It was once insignificant; I’m not sure it is now. You’re not so naive, I hope, to think it consists largely of orphans. I’d be curious to see an accurate number in the increase over the last 30-40 years in “disability” payouts. I think it would be depressing.

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It’s an insignificant and meaningless number when taking into consideration what those folks would get up to without the handouts. It’s unfortunate, but it’s the truth.

I’m as conservative as it gets, but if you don’t believe social security is the lesser evil, you shouldn’t be accusing anyone of being naive. People in this country cannot be trusted to save for retirement. It’s a major problem. Social security isn’t a solution but at least it’s a safety net.

LINK

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With people living longer these days they get more out than they put in

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Fair enough. But what is your measure of "what they put in"?

Cash contributions? or Cash contributions w/ 10% compounding interest?

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Fair enough. But what is your measure of "what they put in"? Cash contributions? or Cash contributions w/ 10% compounding interest?

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For those saying about the unfairness of some SS payments verses others, SS is an insurance program. Your premiums are a percentage of your pay and employer share, and after meeting certain conditions you are eligible for a certain level of payments.

Unfortunately, some do not live to collect every dollar that was paid as premiums, and others collect way more that they ever could put in.

One thing I think that could help with some stability in the system would be an optional extra contribution that individuals could get a match by their employer to avoid future cuts when we get to that point. If workers elected to do this then future benefits would not be reduced as much as required by law when we get to that point depending on your level of participation.

I also believe that some changes to the system are necessary such as increased quarter requirements to reflect a lifetime of work and not someone who will game the system by increasing pay for a few years before retiring or join the workforce for a few years before retirement age to become eligible for a check.

It really doesn’t much how long or how much you paid in. The max is about $3400 and I suspect the average is $1500 or so. So in reality a some people will get a lot more than they paid in while a lot will never get what they paid in.

Yes, I’ve acknowledged children are eligible for benefits if their parents paid into social security.

I have plenty of clients with actual disabled children. Disability benefits are not what you think. It’s not a hill worth dying on.

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but technically SS is an insurance program

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Actuarial analysis is different than insurance itself.

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Do you collect every dollar of car insurance or homeowners insurance if you don’t file a claim?

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I think you are missing the point.
(1) SS is a loan which an employee is forced to allow the Federal Government to borrow with repayment structured to begin when/if the employee reaches retirement, not "insurance." The terms of borrow include an ROI which is (in most instances) very low. The low cost of borrow renders SS an invaluable monetizing vehicle for the federal government.
(2) My question, though, regarding your measure of "every dollar that was paid as premiums," relates to ROI. SS totals a participant's unadjusted contributions vs SS payouts. When total payouts exceed total contributions, SS proponents shout "See what a great program this is!" At that crossover point (Total contributions = Total payouts), ROI remains significantly negative IAW compounded inflation rate over the contributional timeframe. Hence, the question regarding how total "premiums" are assessed.