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re: Change my mind: The average American would be better off if Ukraine lost in the next month
Posted on 2/3/23 at 9:57 am to NC_Tigah
Posted on 2/3/23 at 9:57 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Holy smokes, you've swallowed hook, line, sinker and the entire rod & reel.
I mean he is. That’s what he wants to do. He doesn’t like the US being the world superpower and wants to weaken us. Even you folks who believe in all the conspiracy crap, should still believe this is the case. In fact if your conspiracy crap is true, then what I’m saying about Putin’s motives would still stand.
What are Putin’s motives in your opinion?
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:00 am to crazy4lsu
quote:Of course there is, but we'd rather "press Putin."
there is no easy path to reintegrating Russia into the world economy.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:07 am to sta4ever
quote:
I don’t think I’m the stupid one here bud
We've spent more on Ukraine than Russia's entire defense budget. Explain how that translates to Ukraine getting man handled?
Search the DU pages and get back to us.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:10 am to riccoar
quote:
We've spent more on Ukraine than Russia's entire defense budget. Explain how that translates to Ukraine getting man handled?
Because Russia is ruthless and will do whatever it takes to win this. I think Russia is going to win this conflict. But you have to do something about this if you’re in the power position the US is in. Can’t just sit back and watch shite unfold. That means you’re weaker and are vulnerable to more serious things happening in the future. US had to take a stand in this thing.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:11 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Of course there is, but we'd rather "press Putin."
I disagree, as I think the Europeans broadly see that Russian actions the last 20 years were in bad-faith. That relationship is not easily going to be repaired.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:24 am to sta4ever
quote:He wants Russia to "challenge" the collective 30 countries in NATO? Really?
I mean he is. That’s what he wants to do.
So let's think about that.
The combined GDP of NATO countries is $32.5 Trillion. Russia's GDP is $1.8 Trillion. That is an 18-fold difference.
The combined population of NATO countries is 950 million. Russia's population is 143 million. That's a 6 1/2 fold difference.
NATO has been continuously expanding toward Russia since the dissolution of the Soviet Union. NATO, a military alliance, established unilaterally, >20yrs ago, Russia was not an ally. NATO announced, over strenuous Russian objections, its intention incorporate Georgia and Ukraine. Russia responded that would constitute a declaration of war. Obama and Biden pursued the course undeterred. Russia attacked.
Yet, you consider that as Putin challenging NATO?
This post was edited on 2/3/23 at 10:25 am
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:32 am to crazy4lsu
quote:That's a choice.
relationship is not easily going to be repaired.
In other words, you are now contending what could be done, won't be done. I'd agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:34 am to burger bearcat
quote:
Change my mind: The average American would be better off if Ukraine lost in the next month
i can't. i want Russia to lose, but the sooner this is over the better.
if we (our overlords) really wanted this to end, it could end quickly.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:35 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Yet, you consider that as Putin challenging NATO?
He’s challenged the west. It’s the same thing he did when he invaded Georgia then Ukraine in 2014. He ratcheted up his attacks in 2022 thinking the west would do nothing.
Since NATO is a large portion of the West, Putin certainly challenged NATO and this time they responded.
You can make excuses for Putin and say NATO forced his hand, or he was trying to make a move before his population grew old, or its the Nazis; however, the fact is he challenged the West again and the West finally reacted in a big way.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:36 am to doubleb
quote:
You can make excuses for Putin and say NATO forced his hand
Making excuses..
There's no good guys here chief. We push their buttons, they push ours, Ukrainians die.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:37 am to sta4ever
quote:
Because Russia is ruthless and will do whatever it takes to win this.
But yet, they really aren't. Putin could just carpet bomb the shite out of Ukraine if he wanted to. He has so many options, besides nuclear, that could decimate Zelensky yet is going the route he's using.
Why is that? He could have been marching into Kyiv like 2 weeks after this started, but he's not.
It's not because of our money stream or that the Ukrainian horse jockey is a modern day Patton.
So tell us why?
This post was edited on 2/3/23 at 10:47 am
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:51 am to riccoar
quote:
But yet, they really aren't. Putin could just carpet bomb the shite out of Ukraine if he wanted to
Can he and not have massive losses to his Air Force?
quote:
Why is that? He could have been marching into Kyiv like 2 weeks after this started, but he's not.
He tried to do that and failed.
quote:
So tell us why?
Russia is inept
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:52 am to burger bearcat
Let Russia rebuild Ukraine.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:58 am to riccoar
Because he also believes Ukraine is Russia and bombing the shite out of Ukraine would do no good for Russia. If you’re trying to take a country for yourself, why destroy the place. Putin thought Ukraine would cave easily and that the West would be too scared to do anything about it. He thought the West’s response would be just like 2008 and 2014. He underestimated Ukraine and the West. Putin has several motives in this war. Trying to reestablish what he thinks is the real Russian Empire and trying to stick it to the West.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 10:58 am to NC_Tigah
Well since you know everything, why don’t you tell us what Putin’s real motives in this thing are.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 11:21 am to burger bearcat
Let Europe worry about this and let them pay for this.
We need to use the money we send over there to fix our infrastructure.
The Chinese are not worried and they are next to Russia.
We need to use the money we send over there to fix our infrastructure.
The Chinese are not worried and they are next to Russia.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 11:27 am to sta4ever
quote:I have, many times. As has he, for years and years.
Well since you know everything, why don’t you tell us what Putin’s real motives in this thing are.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 11:40 am to burger bearcat
All I know is this. I don't care about Ukraine whatsoever. I mean, seriously. I don't give one single flying frick about them or their country or ANY of that shite.
I don't think they warrant any response from the US at all. They don't deserve our money, weapons, foreign policy, nothing. It sucks that Russia is attacking them but it's not our problem.
My biggest fear is our intervening. Ukraine OR Russia isn't worth an American war. It isn't worth one single American dollar LET ALONE ONE SINGLE AMERICAN LIFE.
This shite is getting old.
I don't think they warrant any response from the US at all. They don't deserve our money, weapons, foreign policy, nothing. It sucks that Russia is attacking them but it's not our problem.
My biggest fear is our intervening. Ukraine OR Russia isn't worth an American war. It isn't worth one single American dollar LET ALONE ONE SINGLE AMERICAN LIFE.
This shite is getting old.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 11:42 am to Giantkiller
I never wanted to be average. Are you a settler in everything?
Putin is losing this war because his army is led by corrupt crooks ....like Putin
Putin is losing this war because his army is led by corrupt crooks ....like Putin
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