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re: Zions Defense
Posted on 11/6/22 at 9:38 am to Pistol44
Posted on 11/6/22 at 9:38 am to Pistol44
quote:
spent the off-season getting into physical condition that is a pre-cursor to basketball condition.
he turned his ankle.
thereafter he was not doing wind sprints. or jumping.
so he came into season way behind. as noted in other threads he not only isn't in premier condition but he missed coordinating practice with others 5x5.
and with this and other injury recoveries he didn't get to master a go to shot away from the basket.
alas, sez I.
1
Posted on 11/6/22 at 10:24 am to CelticDog
Zion is like a lot of young gifted players where their defense is tied their offensive production. They are so used to dominating offensively that when they come across professional schemes and defenders that limit their production they lose focus defensively. Overcoming this will come with time, experience, and coaching.
Make no mistake though, the Pelicans ceiling is directly tied to Zion becoming a better and more engaged defender.
Make no mistake though, the Pelicans ceiling is directly tied to Zion becoming a better and more engaged defender.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 5:55 pm to SaintNation
I honestly think he’s afraid he’ll have another shoe blowout like he did at duke. When he shuffles his feet (and I may be proved wrong on this) I don’t remember seeing him really plant and push off when he needs to change directions to stay in front of someone.
If someone proves me wrong on this I’ll take the L, but until proven otherwise you can’t convince me he doesn’t have the ability or instincts to play defense. He’s just too gifted.
He also proved he could be a game changing defender in college before he got hurt. Was lauded by scouts for his defense.
If someone proves me wrong on this I’ll take the L, but until proven otherwise you can’t convince me he doesn’t have the ability or instincts to play defense. He’s just too gifted.
He also proved he could be a game changing defender in college before he got hurt. Was lauded by scouts for his defense.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 7:14 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
His whole problem on D maybe still trying to work himself into basketball shape.
Good lord, how is this still a thing?
I have never seen a fan base so wrapped up into if or when a guy is in shape. I just don't get it.
Seriously, has he ever been in peak condition? Like the apex where there was no question? Is there any universe where that is sustainable?
Posted on 11/6/22 at 7:22 pm to brmark70816
It’s still a thing because he’s missed almost 2 years of basketball. You don’t come back from that and jump right in and be in basketball shape, that takes time.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 8:30 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
It’s still a thing because he’s missed almost 2 years of basketball. You don’t come back from that and jump right in and be in basketball shape, that takes time.
What are you basing that on? I mean as far as timelines. He's been healed over 6 months. He wanted to join the team in April. He spent all summer getting into "shape". Team came into camp over a month ago.
What would him being in basketball shape look like? I don't mean to focus just on you. I have seen many people say the same thing, about him getting into shape or it'll take time. I don't see this type of thing said about any other player for this extended amount of time..
Posted on 11/6/22 at 8:34 pm to brmark70816
quote:
What would him being in basketball shape look like?
Not needing to come out of the game to take IVs because he’s cramping like happened last game. Anyone that watched the entire SVG season knows what it looks like for him to get into game shape.
This post was edited on 11/6/22 at 8:35 pm
Posted on 11/6/22 at 9:01 pm to brmark70816
Working with a personal trainer, no matter how good, does not prepare you for live 30+ minutes of full court 5 on 5. Particularly after a year and a half off. Id rather see his minutes cut to 25 with good effort initially and build him up to 35+ second half of the season.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 9:46 pm to Pistol44
He’s good with his minutes as is. He needs to play and get into better shape.
Posted on 11/6/22 at 10:18 pm to WicKed WayZ
Those 5 to 8 minutes where Zion is gassed are injuries waiting to happen, let alone giving up easy buckets. Hes young so his body will likey adapt fairly quickly, but id be more inclined to slow role it.
Posted on 11/7/22 at 6:59 am to SaintNation
quote:
The problem is, it does not appear to be a physical thing. He literally does not hustle, does not move his feet.
I'm afraid you are right. And that's not acceptable.
Posted on 11/7/22 at 7:04 am to SaintNation
He’s almost unplayable with what he gives up on defense. I would trade him while he’s healthy and get some players who actually give a shite
Posted on 11/7/22 at 7:07 am to Pistol44
quote:
Working with a personal trainer, no matter how good, does not prepare you for live 30+ minutes of full court 5 on 5. Particularly after a year and a half off.
This is a cop out. Ramp up takes maybe a month, which is about the length of training camp. He's not starting from square one. I could see blaming his most recent injury, which is more than reasonable. But constantly blaming his conditioning is not realistic.
quote:
Id rather see his minutes cut to 25 with good effort initially and build him up to 35+ second half of the season.
This is the outcome nobody wants to admit is best. He's most effective under 30mpg. He can't moderate himself and burns out too quickly or his current style isn't sustainable for longer minutes. I can't totally buy that. It's a harsh truth, for his style and current build/conditioning.
A team can't win with this mindset though. A superstar can't be a sub 30mpg player, even as a super closer. They are going to learn a lot of harsh lessons this year, hopefully it starts to makes sense for him and he changes his mindset..
Posted on 11/7/22 at 7:34 am to brmark70816
quote:
They are going to learn a lot of harsh lessons this year, hopefully it starts to makes sense for him and he changes his mindset..
which lessons?
I actually give him this season as slack. I want a pre season with no injuries.
then lets see premier conditioning and he must bring the introduction of a normal form jumper he can knock down from ft line and around there +- 3 feet.
if we endure waiting out another physical therapy summer 2023 with no new offense "go to" shot and no A+ fitness he's not going to attain the ceiling you had in mind next season either.
I'm patient.
he's got a whole year to come up to my expectations for him.
what lessons?
Posted on 11/7/22 at 9:00 am to CelticDog
quote:
which lessons?
His plan is not feasible. He cannot play long term at this body type and carrying this much bulk, even if it's all "muscle".
People are shocked he can't be an energetic defender of his gets winded/tired. Well no shite, he's carrying an extra 20-30lbs.
quote:
actually give him this season as slack. I want a pre season with no injuries.
He wasn't injured this offseason. He came into camp in the best shape ever supposedly. Why are people claiming he wasn't ready or needs more conditioning?
Posted on 11/7/22 at 9:07 am to brmark70816
quote:
Why are people claiming he wasn't ready or needs more conditioning?
Because we're actually watching the games. I'm not saying you don't, you post way too much here to not be watching, but the questions you just asked is a question of someone that hasn't seen Zion play this year and the SVG season. Despite coming in to the season at a lower weight and in "great shape" he doesn't look as good as he did at the end of the SVG season after he had played his way into shape over a few months.
Posted on 11/7/22 at 9:20 am to TigerinATL
quote:
he doesn't look as good as he did at the end of the SVG season after he had played his way into shape over a few months.
His conditioning or his play? Or both?
Posted on 11/7/22 at 9:22 am to brmark70816
quote:
He wasn't injured this offseason. He came into camp in the best shape ever supposedly. Why are people claiming he wasn't ready or needs more conditioning?
You’re willfully ignorant. Zion is coming off an injury that forced him to sit an entire season. It’s not unprecedented for him not to be in tip top basketball shape 10 games into the season.
If anything Zion should be praised for how well he’s played thus far after an extended absence from BASKETBALL.
He’s no where near a finished product
Posted on 11/7/22 at 9:44 am to Don Pel
quote:
You’re willfully ignorant. Zion is coming off an injury that forced him to sit an entire season. It’s not unprecedented for him not to be in tip top basketball shape 10 games into the season.
Ok. I got it. So when will he be? How long does he need?
Or is this always going to be a thing? Cause even during that monster season I kept hearing, he's still so raw and just wait until he gets into better shape.
quote:
If anything Zion should be praised for how well he’s played thus far after an extended absence from BASKETBALL.
You were expecting less?
Posted on 11/7/22 at 10:00 am to brmark70816
quote:
Ok. I got it. So when will he be? How long does he need?
6 weeks of competitive basketball would be the point where I feel comfortable to start making hypothesis on the data displayed.
quote:
You were expecting less?
I respect the Devil’s Advocate approach but c’mon bro.
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