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Message
re: Ukraine Troops withdraw from Lysyschansk
Posted on 8/17/22 at 11:56 am to sta4ever
Posted on 8/17/22 at 11:56 am to sta4ever
quote:
We’re not placing militaries and separatist groups in a country,
Uh, we're trying to place yet another NATO country at Russia's doorstep after we said we wouldn't then did it anyway in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland.
quote:
that overwhelmingly doesn’t want to be closer to us.
The regions in the east as well as Crimea didn't want to be part of Ukraine. I guess by your logic, it was ok for Russia to take those areas.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 11:58 am to upgrayedd
quote:
we're trying to place yet another NATO country at Russia's doorstep after we said we wouldn't then did it anyway in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland.
The absolute nerve of sovereign nations establishing bilateral and consensual relationships with each other.
That type of overt hostility cannot be tolerated. Instead, affairs should be conducted by force and the unilateral wishes of whomever carries the biggest stick in the region.
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 11:59 am
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:01 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
The absolute nerve of sovereign nations establishing bilateral and consensual relationships with each other.
That type of overt hostility cannot be tolerated. Instead, affairs should be conducted by force and the unilateral wishes of whomever carries the biggest stick in the region.
And those relationships have consequences. I'm not saying I agree with what Russia is doing, I'm telling you why they're doing it and the US/NATO is behind the decisions to expand.
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:04 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
And those relationships have consequences. I'm not saying I agree with what Russia is doing, I'm telling you why they're doing it and the US/NATO is behind the decisions to expand.
Everyone knows why they are doing it. The way you guys jump up and down on the NATO point is easily interpreted as finding Russia's actions reasonable or justifiable.
It also smacks of dishonesty, as it lends credence to the absolute absurdity of suggesting that the Scandinavian/Baltic states, Poland, Central Europe, or even Ukraine pose any threat whatsoever to Russia's national security. If this whole thing was about Russia being distrustful of Germany, then that would make some sense. But none of these nations involved have any history, ability or desire whatsoever to threaten Russia in any way.
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:04 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
And those relationships have consequences.
Families of the 40k dead Russians probably think so.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:04 pm to Indefatigable
Being used as a pawn by the West for several years is not a sign of a sovereign country. Also, when your neighbor has the power and the will to back shite up with force; you tread lightly. That is a reality since the beginning of civilizations
Quit trying to join NATO.
Quit trying to join NATO.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:06 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
Everyone knows why they are doing it. The way you guys jump up and down on the NATO point is easily interpreted as finding Russia's actions reasonable or justifiable.
It's interpreted that way because some of you people lack the ability to objectively reason. Sometimes it's like trying to talk to a 16 year old menstruating girl who just got dumped the week before prom.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:06 pm to LSUBadger
quote:
Quit trying to join NATO.
Ukraine will never be a member of NATO. That isn't even on the table at the moment.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:07 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
It's interpreted that way because some of you people lack the ability to objectively reason.
No, like I said. I interpret it that way because it is parroted constantly and most often said in a context that indicates the poster lends that justification credence.
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:07 pm to lowspark12
quote:
Families of the 40k dead Russians probably think so.
Yes, that is also a consequence. What's your point?
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:08 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
No, like I said. I interpret it that way because it is parroted constantly and most often said in a context that indicates the poster lends that justification credence.
I don't know what point you're trying to make with your word salad.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:09 pm to Chazreinhold
Glad to see our money is being well spent.
I stand with Raytheon.
I stand with Raytheon.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:09 pm to LSUBadger
This current conflict (or rather the extension of the 2014 conflict) has very little to do with NATO… Russia didn’t do shite when Finland joined, a country who has been a part of greater Russia in its past and has fought bloody wars with Russia to stay out of it.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:09 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I don't know what point you're trying to make with your word salad.
My point is that you guys actually believe Russia's stated justification for their action in Ukraine, and that you find it reasonable. Otherwise why keep saying it over and over in every thread for six months?
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:10 pm to Chazreinhold
Moar vanity fair photo shoots, stat!!
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:12 pm to Chazreinhold
Meh. Much of the Donbas region is pro-Russian. This would be like California invading Washington from the sea and Washington ceding Seattle after months of fighting with little movement. The longer this war goes on, the more and more likely it becomes that Ukraine surrenders most (if not all) of that region.
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:14 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
My point is that you guys actually believe Russia's stated justification for their action in Ukraine, and that you find it reasonable. Otherwise why keep saying it over and over in every thread for six months?
I don't find their justification in regards to NATO expansion unreasonable. Now, their "denazification" reasoning is obviously propaganda but that's more likely meant to be targeted towards their people at home.
I mean, the US overtly staged a fricking coup that completely upended their precarious historical relationship with Ukraine. I think that seems like a rational and objective reason why they're doing what they're doing. Like I said, I don't agree with it but I can see why they think this was a move they had to make.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:15 pm to Chazreinhold
N2daWild’s wife and kids escaped from there.
Wonder if they are withdrawing to prep for a souther counter offensive.
Wonder if they are withdrawing to prep for a souther counter offensive.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:17 pm to Bard
quote:
Meh. Much of the Donbas region is pro-Russian. This would be like California invading Washington from the sea and Washington ceding Seattle after months of fighting with little movement. The longer this war goes on, the more and more likely it becomes that Ukraine surrenders most (if not all) of that region.
I have a feeling that most of this could have been avoided if Zelensky ceded that territory to Russia, but his ego, along with the prospect billions of dollars in international aid and weapons, got in the way of his realistic logic.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:22 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
have a feeling that most of this could have been avoided if Zelensky ceded that territory to Russia, but his ego, along with the prospect billions of dollars in international aid and weapons, got in the way of his realistic logic.
How dare Ukraine not just cede the region to Russia. Corruption and ego are the only possible explanations for why Ukraine didn’t just give up one of its core economic regions.
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 12:26 pm
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