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re: Trusting a coach...... difference in one coach to another
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:24 pm to Lsupimp
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:24 pm to Lsupimp
Pimp--
Although it's clear with you ad hominem that you aren't objective, i do agree 100% with this:
Although it's clear with you ad hominem that you aren't objective, i do agree 100% with this:
quote:
The disrespect shown in Baton Rouge to THE HAT is largely based on fear of losing and an "I told ya so" mentality.
1
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:33 pm to Moustache
I think people forget the fan hysteria after a bad loss under Saban sometimes... second guessing and screaming ninnies didn't come to Baton Rouge in 2005
Although I did enjoy hearing occassional brushback from Saban to idiot fans... comments like it's amazing how many knowlegable coaches we have calling into the talk shows on monday
Although I did enjoy hearing occassional brushback from Saban to idiot fans... comments like it's amazing how many knowlegable coaches we have calling into the talk shows on monday
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:33 pm to Moustache
Nobody is objective, brother.
I don't like Nicky , the man. I never have. I cringe when I see people treat other people like he does. But I give the man his due.
I remember listening to the radio in 02 after the Arky game and people wanted to run him out of town. Typical Tiger fan hysteria.
I don't like Nicky , the man. I never have. I cringe when I see people treat other people like he does. But I give the man his due.
I remember listening to the radio in 02 after the Arky game and people wanted to run him out of town. Typical Tiger fan hysteria.
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:36 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
Nobody is objective, brother.
Truer words have never been spoken.
quote:
I remember listening to the radio in 02 after the Arky game and people wanted to run him out of town. Typical Tiger fan hysteria.
That was a shitty game.
However, I'm glad the team didn't go to ATL to get skullfricked by UGA that year. 
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:38 pm to molsusports
quote:
I think people forget the fan hysteria after a bad loss under Saban sometimes... second guessing and screaming ninnies didn't come to Baton Rouge in 2005
I dont' forget. There will always be people second guessign the coaches adn wanting another. There will always be a "grass is greeener" approach in a town with a big football tradition.
It has gotten increasingly worse. The point of the thread was to develop a microcosm to look into the reasons why. Everything from page 1 and 2 play a factor into it, IMO. From the way Saban handled himself (see your comment) to spoiled fan base today to better competition today to championships.
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:38 pm to Moustache
quote:
How is it that Saban commanded so much confidence with LSU fans?
He didn't nearly command as much confidence as some suggest. The preparation for the 2001 Florida game,2001 Ole Miss, and 2002 Auburn were beyond pathetic. The performance against VPI in 2002 in game one with a whole off season was inexcusable.And,how he could leave Mauck in that Florida game up 36-7 knowing he didn't have a back up was just stupid.
Saban's record at Michigan State wasn't much better than Miles at Oklahoma State. Saban's teams were skull drug when they lost.
Saban has much better PR skills than Miles. That helps out in times like this.
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:42 pm to Moustache
quote:
People mention about his 3 losses per season.
2 of those seasons were b/c he took over a program that was freaking 3-8! In two years he had us at 10-3. NOt fair for him to take criticism on that. Just like it isn't fair for Miles to take criticism on his 2005 season with the hurricane and all.
Stop right there. That's a bunch of crap. You Sabanistas drank up the LSU is on a level with Sam Houston State. DiNardo needed to go,but he didn't leave Saban 22 one legged midgets. LSU had been ranked as high as #8 14 months before Saban was hired.How many guys on that 2000 team that DiNardo recruited played a year or two in the NFL ? 12 or 13 ? That wasn't just Saban touching them on the forehead.
The guy lost 5 games his third year.
Now,I hate this kind of junk where you have to dog your old coach in defense of your current one. But the old one got and continues to get too much of a free pass that was never deserved.
This post was edited on 10/14/08 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:43 pm to Aktig
Both coaches deserve accolades for what he has contributed to LSU! However, one thing that will get lost in all discussions about Miles and Saban will be how diligent Miles was when keeping this team and his organization together during four very devistating hurricanes that effected our area.
For a leader to keep his team/organization focused on the matters at hand signals great leadership abilities. Miles may never get the respect he deserves, but if Saban was not at Alabama and still around college football, Miles would definitely get more credit than he is getting.
I truly believe Miles has fire is his guts, passion in his heart and smarts in his head. He may not go down as a legend in LSU history, but our football program is in good shape under the leadership of Les Miles!
For a leader to keep his team/organization focused on the matters at hand signals great leadership abilities. Miles may never get the respect he deserves, but if Saban was not at Alabama and still around college football, Miles would definitely get more credit than he is getting.
I truly believe Miles has fire is his guts, passion in his heart and smarts in his head. He may not go down as a legend in LSU history, but our football program is in good shape under the leadership of Les Miles!
This post was edited on 10/14/08 at 4:44 pm
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:43 pm to I-59 Tiger
quote:
He didn't nearly command as much confidence as some suggest.
This statement and....
quote:
Saban has much better PR skills than Miles. That helps out in times like this.
this statement contradict each other. Sure, people called for Saban's head and everything, but I feel that we as a fan base are A LOT harsher on Miles than Saban.
Whether that was b/c of PR skills or spoiled fans IDK.
quote:
The preparation for the 2001 Florida game,2001 Ole Miss, and 2002 Auburn were beyond pathetic. The performance against VPI in 2002 in game one with a whole off season was inexcusable.And,how he could leave Mauck in that Florida game up 36-7 knowing he didn't have a back up was just stupid.
Many of those decisions and games were very poor. Saban will always have his one loss or more than he shouldn't lose. he's a damn good coach though, as is Miles for the time being. The thing about Saban is that he is not loyal to coaches adn players, which can be a fault at times, but can help at others. The thing about Miles is that he is loyal to coaches and players, which can be a fault at times, but can help at others.
does that make sense?
This post was edited on 10/14/08 at 4:44 pm
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:43 pm to Aktig
quote:
Saban was more direct after a loss. Acted like it really bothered him, admitted problems.
Saban is just as direct after a WIN! Saban is bothered by WINS! He's just always BOTHERED! I sometimes think that's what many Rantards want - someone who is never satisfied.
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:44 pm to Hootie
Yeah look what CEO's have done for us lately....
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:44 pm to I-59 Tiger
quote:
Saban has much better PR skills than Miles. That helps out in times like this.
Yet Nick had the biggest public relations catastrophe of a football coach in recent memory and endured more disrespect than any coach I can recall. His PR skills were HORRID. But I know what you mean, even when he is alienating everyone and humiliating himself, he SOUNDS like an authority figure.
Les is a simple man. I ENJOY his style.
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:47 pm to Lsupimp
Okay,I worded that poorly. But,IMO standing before the cameras (not counting the Miami fiasco) Saban generally comes off a little better than Miles. Some people (including LSU fans) will never let him live down the 2005 Tennessee game -looking for his wife,the original headset,and the attempt at the timeout.
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:48 pm to I-59 Tiger
quote:
Stop right there. That's a bunch of crap. You Sabanistas drank up the LSU is on a level with Sam Houston State. DiNardo needed to go,but he didn't leave Saban 22 one legged midgets. LSU had been ranked as high as #8 14 months before Saban was hired.
man, i dont' claim to be a Sabanista. Maybe you should read the whole thread before fricking it up with this Miles>Saban argument. Neither argument can win undisputably.
Although, you're right about Saban inheriting talent. However, when you take over a team, install a whole new system, new staff, new attitude it is very difficult to win immediately.
The plain and simple reason LSU is a national contender most years now is because Saban closed the borders and kept the recruits like Dunn, Raynoch Thompson, Faulk, and many others from leaving the state.
The reason LSU remains is b/c Miles is a damn good coach/manager and knows how to win. Whether Miles can keep up the harder task of maintaining a program is yet to be seen. Saban has never been in that position. He is generally a rebuilder. Who knows if we'd be better off with him or not. Same goes for Miles.
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:53 pm to Dice
quote:
Well said Keeper...Saban NEVER seemed to make the adjustments like Miles has.
Umm yes he did. 2000 Peach Bowl, 2001 SECCG, 2002 South Carolina...those are the ones off the top of my head.
Saban received plenty of heat for his losses. But I think we felt more comfortable that he knew what needed to be corrected, and we usually bounced back. Miles, on the other hand, just says there was nothing wrong with the defense. Maybe he's right, we don't know. We aren't around this team everyday in practice. I respect Miles as a coach, and I think he's a wonderful coach, but something does need to be worked on. And we all have to have faith in him that he will address the issues even if he doesn't come across that way when speaking to the media. Saban was able to silence his critics with good speaking skills and a good performance following a bad game. I don't care about Miles' speaking skills, but we will see how the team performs after a bad game like this one.
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:56 pm to Moustache
Let me tell you something. Don't even try to say that it was easier on Saban than on Miles. Miles inherited the most talented football in the Nation, as to where Saban inherited a team that lacked talent and position coaches. This is a load of crap. I love both of them equally. They both are great coaches that have contributed greatly to LSU's success. Don't down Saban, man, he led us to a National Championship for God's sake!
Posted on 10/14/08 at 4:58 pm to tigerfan15
quote:
Let me tell you something. Don't even try to say that it was easier on Saban than on Miles. Miles inherited the most talented football in the Nation, as to where Saban inherited a team that lacked talent and position coaches. This is a load of crap. I love both of them equally. They both are great coaches that have contributed greatly to LSU's success. Don't down Saban, man, he led us to a National Championship for God's sake!
Bruh,
I am in no way downing Saban. As a matter of fact people in this thread criticized me for praising him.
Anybody who knows anything about sports knows that it is A LOT easier to attain success than it is to maintain it. That goes for businesses and really any organization that makes critical decisions daily.
You are right about both of them being great icons and contributors to teh success of our beloved LSU.
Posted on 10/14/08 at 5:18 pm to Moustache
imo to boil it down to a simple thing its speaking skills. miles does not speak as well to the media as saban does. I'm not saying one is better than the other because both are great but Saban comes off as confident when speaking and that will make alot of people feel better.
also I think part of the people that want to rip saban more than others are just looking at it like frick him he left us and he is at bama. If say he just retired some people would have a different look on this thread and be able to actually see the point.
also I think part of the people that want to rip saban more than others are just looking at it like frick him he left us and he is at bama. If say he just retired some people would have a different look on this thread and be able to actually see the point.
Posted on 10/14/08 at 6:35 pm to josh336
quote:Exactly, Saban's not a dweeb.
Good topic, i think alot of it is the way they carry themselves
Posted on 10/14/08 at 6:37 pm to tigerfan15
quote:You obviously don't know what Saban inherited.
as to where Saban inherited a team that lacked talent
During Saban's five seasons at LSU (2000-2004), he had 24 players that were selected in the NFL draft. Of these 24 players, 17 were already on the LSU roster before Saban ever coached a game as a Tiger.
The list includes: Seniors: T Brandon Winey, C Louis Williams, and TE Robert Royal; Juniors: QB Josh Booty, QB Rohan Davey, DE Jarvis Green, and DT Howard Green; Sophomores: RB Domanick Davis, WR Josh Reed, LB Bradie James, and CB Norman LeJeune; Freshman: RB LaBrandon Toefield, RB Devery Henderson, CB Corey Webster, LB Lionel Turner, DT Chad Lavalais, and P Donnie Jones.
Also, Saban inherited some other major talent on the LSU roster before he ever coached a game for the Tigers (Seniors: WR Abram Booty and WR Reggie Robinson; Sophomores: T Brad Smalling, S. Damien James, and CB Demtrius Hookfin.
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