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Russia: Is History Repeating Itself? Those who ignore it...

Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:13 am
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
57732 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:13 am
First off:



That part of Poland which runs between Danzig and Germany (and, most importantly, separates a portion of Germany) was known as the "Danzig" or "Polish" Corridor (depending on whom you speak to). This was established as part of the Treaty of Versailles. More on this piece of real estate in a bit.

March 12, 1938 saw the Anschluss Österreichs, the annexation of Austria by Germany, much to the joy and approval of many Austrians. By some estimates, Hitler was more popular in Austria than in Germany at this time.

Hitler's rationale was that Austrians were really Germanic and thus part of the "Greater Germany". He wasn't invading a foreign country, he just reuniting separated peoples. What a guy.

While many Ukrainians loathe Putin and desperately do not want to be absorbed into Russia, Putin's rhetoric regarding the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics doesn't sound too different from Hitler's Austria stance. While it's not a 100% match, the differences are minor. If Putin decides to absorb Belarus, his reasons will be so similar that the differences will be only cosmetic.


In late 1938 Hitler claimed the Czechs were committing horrible atrocities against ethnically German peoples so Czechoslovakia needed to cede those parts to Germany.

Does that sound familiar? It should.

quote:

It is also true that Crimea in 2014 had an ethnic Russian majority of about 60 percent — the only part of Ukraine where ethnic Russians constituted the majority.

quote:

Moscow expressed concern about the fate of ethnic Russians in Crimea, but no evidence showed any threat to them. The Russian government justified the referendum and annexation as an act of self-determination, though it appears that well less than half of the Crimean population actually voted to join Russia.


And now back to this:



By mid-1939 Hitler was demanding that Poland hand over the Corridor, promising that this would be his last demand if they gave in on just this one last thing. Rumor is he even pinky-swore!


-Soon to be claimed as a gesture secretly espousing white supremacist views

Why is this important? Because Kaliningrad.



Kaliningrad is a part of Russia. In a different manner -but one with the same result- Russia lost direct access to Kaliningrad when the Baltic nations and Belarus became independent after the USSR fell. If Putin is following the same path as Hitler, his next objective after Ukraine (and Moldova, quite likely) will be to absorb Belarus then begin making a pitch for access to Kaliningrad. Poland and Lithuania are both NATO members and based as frick (Lithuania has been a vocal advocate of economic sanctions against Russia and have welcomed opposition activists from both Russia and Belarus) so they will be absolutely unwilling to cede any lands to Russia.

The big questions are:

-Will the West (meaning the EU, UK, NATO, etc) standing down over Ukraine embolden Putin to go after reconnecting to Kaliningrad?
-If so, what will the West do about it?

Make no mistake, this isn't a call to send troops into Ukraine. It's applying the lessons of history to see the warning signs of whether or not it may be repeating itself.
Posted by saints5021
Louisiana
Member since Jul 2010
19041 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:21 am to
So
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
69206 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:22 am to
He doesn’t need to annex Belarus. Belarus is an ally run by a puppet dictator. He will keep them technically independent while they do everything Putin wants.

Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia are all in NATO, and thus would come with bigger consequences than Ukraine
This post was edited on 2/23/22 at 9:24 am
Posted by jcaz
Laffy
Member since Aug 2014
18692 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:25 am to
All foreign policy experts likely agree something has to be done to avoid repeating history. The question is just a matter of how?
How would we have intervened in the 30’s as Hitler annexed the Sudetenland?
We have to cut off Russia now and work on cutting off China. They are the new evil empire.
Posted by BobBoucher
Member since Jan 2008
18472 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:29 am to
Recall the “little green men” that were meddling in Lithuania back when Russia took Crimea.

There was lots of pro Russia propaganda flooding the area back then, and there was fear of that land bridge to Kaliningrad.

Its been quiet since. Who knows.
Posted by DarthRebel
Tier Five is Alive
Member since Feb 2013
24652 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:30 am to
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:40 am to
WTF is all this shite?

The CIA initiated a coup in Ukraine in 2013-14 in order to install a government in Kiev amenable to joining the European Union. So now Putin's looking at the very real possibility of having an EU member, not only right on his border, but also fully in control of his only warm water port at Sevastopol. WTF would any reasonable person expect him to do but to secure his strategic assets?

This has nothing at all to do with "Kaliningrad". The Prussians of Konigsberg got what they fricking deserved.
Posted by greygoose
Member since Aug 2013
14006 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:40 am to
quote:

DarthRebel

Cheers to Mother!
Posted by sta4ever
Member since Aug 2014
17375 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:40 am to
quote:

Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia are all in NATO, and thus would come with bigger consequences than Ukraine


This is what is important. Not Ukraine itself, but how aggressive will Russia be to all of the ex USSR states?

Are these Baltic states Russian speaking people?
Posted by RD Dawg
Atlanta
Member since Sep 2012
28080 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:44 am to
quote:

Make no mistake, this isn't a call to send troops into Ukraine.


Of course it is.Then you say this:

quote:

It's applying the lessons of history to see the warning signs of whether or not it may be repeating itself.


Which is it?
Posted by Bearcat90
The Land
Member since Nov 2021
2955 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:45 am to
Russia already had

46 Oblasts
22 Republics
9 Krais
4 Autonomous Krugs

I fail to see how just this one is significant.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
35594 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:51 am to
I'm glad that someone else sees the Baltic on the board. The Baltic is much more important strategically.
Posted by GhostOfFreedom
Member since Jan 2021
13011 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:55 am to
#NotOurWar
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 9:59 am to
quote:

Are these Baltic states Russian speaking people?

Are you seriously asking if the Lithuanians speak Russian?
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 10:10 am to
quote:

He doesn’t need to annex Belarus. Belarus is an ally run by a puppet dictator. He will keep them technically independent while they do everything Putin wants.

Belarus exists in partnership with Russia in the Eurasian Economic Union. Putin wants Ukraine in that union instead of having them join the EU.

It's my opinion that Putin's end goal is to destabilize the Kiev government such that he can reverse the coup of 2014 and re-install a government that will join the EEU instead of the EU.

The best way to destabilize Kiev?

This post was edited on 2/23/22 at 10:14 am
Posted by bird35
Georgia
Member since Sep 2012
13404 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 10:11 am to
Not our Hemisphere.

Not our war.

Posted by LookSquirrel
Old Millville
Member since Oct 2019
7650 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 10:26 am to
Maybe, and I mean MAYBE, he is trying to fend off these Globalist, who really are trying to take over the world.
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 10:44 am to
quote:

Maybe, and I mean MAYBE, he is trying to fend off these Globalist, who really are trying to take over the world.

What's the difference between a "globalist" and a "capitalist"? Are capitalists more concerned with nationalism or profit? I would expect any self-respecting capitalist to pursue opportunities for profit anywhere in the world. Wouldn't you?

It seems to me where the interests of competing entities looking for economic gain coincide, there's bound to be conflict. Would Putin prefer to be the hegemon over Ukraine's economic interests? Of course. I'm sure he would rather have all of his borders secured with economic partnerships. Who wouldn't?

BTW, my portfolio includes foreign investments. Does that make me a globalist, or just a wise capitalist?
Posted by UncleFestersLegs
Member since Nov 2010
16281 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 10:55 am to
quote:

How would we have intervened in the 30’s as Hitler annexed the Sudetenland?
when hitler marched into the rhineland in 36, he gave orders to retreat if the west reacted militarily
Posted by Bwmdx
Member since Dec 2018
3298 posts
Posted on 2/23/22 at 10:58 am to
Sounds like Europe needs to figure this out and leave us alone.
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