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Posted on 2/14/22 at 6:44 am to TigerinATL
I agree that Zion is probably the better bet, even though his height/reach is not ideal. If you've got so so perimeter defenders, you need back end help to clean up the mess. And that doesn't mean Zion needs to be a Gobert or Draymond, but just in the right place at the right time often enough to help teammates. Ingram would be interesting there, but he's never been able to put on the weight to be a 4
Also agree on outscoring teams, so it's not like the Pels need to be GS. Just be average on defense and have a great offense and you're cooking.
Part of this is also thinking about the team over the next 3 years or so. If you believe Zion/Ingram can work well enough defensively and you believe in Murphy developing, roster possibilities are wide open if your core is Zion/Ingram/Herb and a player like Murphy as a solid 3 and D wing. Can go in a lot of different directions.
Also agree on outscoring teams, so it's not like the Pels need to be GS. Just be average on defense and have a great offense and you're cooking.
Part of this is also thinking about the team over the next 3 years or so. If you believe Zion/Ingram can work well enough defensively and you believe in Murphy developing, roster possibilities are wide open if your core is Zion/Ingram/Herb and a player like Murphy as a solid 3 and D wing. Can go in a lot of different directions.
Posted on 2/14/22 at 7:37 am to corndeaux
quote:
Part of this is also thinking about the team over the next 3 years or so. If you believe Zion/Ingram can work well enough defensively and you believe in Murphy developing, roster possibilities are wide open if your core is Zion/Ingram/Herb and a player like Murphy as a solid 3 and D wing. Can go in a lot of different directions.
I think that's the trickiest part. If I could get Josh Hart back in FA on the MLE, and trade Devonte and #10 for a good player, I'm not sure who or even what kind of player I'd trade for. I'm not saying you couldn't use an upgrade, I'm just not sure where is best.
Starters: CJ/Herb/BI/Zion/JV
2nd unit: Jose/Hart/Zion/Jax/Nance
Because I think Zion (or one of the big 3) will play with the 2nd unit a good bit, I don't have room for Trey in these lineups and Kira gets left out too. While Jose could be upgraded by a Jordan Clarkson 6th Man of the Year type, is that wasted if Zion is leading your 2nd unit?
The best course might be draft BPA (assuming you keep a pick) and just let things continue to marinate.
This post was edited on 2/14/22 at 7:39 am
Posted on 2/14/22 at 10:01 am to TigerinATL
Hart is a good piece, but they have to try to get something out of Murphy. He's cheap for the next few years and can be a great value as CJ ages and Zion reups. Way too early to close the book on him
Agree. We just need to see Zion play with this roster and how he grows as a player. So tough to plan when your centerpiece is missing
quote:
best course might be draft BPA (assuming you keep a pick) and just let things continue to marinate.
Agree. We just need to see Zion play with this roster and how he grows as a player. So tough to plan when your centerpiece is missing
Posted on 2/14/22 at 10:22 am to corndeaux
quote:
they have to try to get something out of Murphy. He's cheap for the next few years and can be a great value as CJ ages and Zion reups. Way too early to close the book on him
Right. I believe that there's an ancient Persian proverb that says:
"Growth is not linear."
You never know when a growth spurt might take place.
Posted on 2/14/22 at 8:36 pm to GOP_Tiger
Hart another 20 point game and still has 1 quarter to go
Posted on 2/14/22 at 8:38 pm to lsutigers718
No chance Portland decling that option. They'll trade him or keep him. Too much value if he keeps this up.
Posted on 2/14/22 at 8:48 pm to corndeaux
quote:
It's not debatable because you have one link to one game where he defended Kyrie well in 2019? Ok. Here's my one LINK from 2019 too. Ingram has never really been the guy you think he can be on defense.
quote:
Right. The only difference here is you think he can step up and be a plus defender. I don't,
Let’s revisit this conversation again, thoughts on BI can’t be a plus defender and my analysis of him being capable of being our second best wing defender was incorrect????
I say this as BI has been an utter nightmare to the Raps and shut FVV down when he was switched into him
This post was edited on 2/14/22 at 8:53 pm
Posted on 2/15/22 at 5:02 am to supe12sta12z
quote:
No chance Portland decling that option. They'll trade him or keep him. Too much value if he keeps this up
He ended up with 29pts last night in another win. He is making 13M next season. They aren't cutting him for sure..
Posted on 2/15/22 at 5:29 am to Bronc
lol. You're incredible, my man. Just make sure you are back responding after one game where he is a disaster on defense.
Yes. He played really well tonight, just like that one game v Kyrie in Feb 2019. Let's see if he can do it consistently. He hasn't been able to do it in 5+ years.
Again, I truly hope you're right about where he can get defensively. That would be great for him and the team
And I'll happily eat shite when you come back and bang on about your correct analysis and how wrong I was if/when Ingram proves it consistently.
Yes. He played really well tonight, just like that one game v Kyrie in Feb 2019. Let's see if he can do it consistently. He hasn't been able to do it in 5+ years.
Again, I truly hope you're right about where he can get defensively. That would be great for him and the team
And I'll happily eat shite when you come back and bang on about your correct analysis and how wrong I was if/when Ingram proves it consistently.
Posted on 2/15/22 at 5:39 am to corndeaux
You said flat out he was incapable, that it’s out of the cards for him, it’s really annoying when people can’t just own when they made stupid hot takes and instead think doubling down is the wiser path simply because they arbitrarily took a position from a place of ignorance and don’t want to admit they were wrong for fear of looking weak. So instead of a simple, yep, i was wrong, he can be a plus defender, it’s move the goal posts to keep me in the fight.
This post was edited on 2/15/22 at 5:45 am
Posted on 2/15/22 at 5:48 am to CelticDog
I think we saw a big enough sample with hart with pels
It’s not like the pels we’re going Anywhere with him
Change was needed
It’s not like the pels we’re going Anywhere with him
Change was needed
Posted on 2/15/22 at 5:54 am to Bronc
Yes. I have an opinion that he won't be a plus defender. You disagree. Great! People can have different opinions.
lol. You said multiple times Ingram had been a plus defender in LA and that that point "wasn't debatable." Then I shared a link that detailed how Ingram was not a plus defender during his last season in LA. Then you disappeared from the thread only to post again after he plays a good game on defense 3 years later.
lol. I've said multiple times now I hope you are right about him. I've said I'll gladly eat shite from you and anyone else who wants to pile on.
The only person who is weak here is you. You desperately need everyone who posts here to agree with your opinions and then melt down when anyone has a different view.
quote:
doubling down
lol. You said multiple times Ingram had been a plus defender in LA and that that point "wasn't debatable." Then I shared a link that detailed how Ingram was not a plus defender during his last season in LA. Then you disappeared from the thread only to post again after he plays a good game on defense 3 years later.
quote:
don’t want to admit they were wrong for fear of looking weak
lol. I've said multiple times now I hope you are right about him. I've said I'll gladly eat shite from you and anyone else who wants to pile on.
The only person who is weak here is you. You desperately need everyone who posts here to agree with your opinions and then melt down when anyone has a different view.
Posted on 2/15/22 at 6:02 am to corndeaux
quote:
Yes. I have an opinion that he won't be a plus defender.
Again, he was literally a plus defender last night, so again, you are simply wrong.
Just stop doubling down and moving goal posts, it’s childish and immature.
The conversation was very simple, I made the statement that the excuse well will run dry with his D when everyone is healthy because BI is a more than capable 2nd perimeter defender and has proven he can be, but since getting here has not put in the level of effort we’ve seen in the past. That ultimately he will need to have his Curry-like come-to-Jesus moment about it if this project with CJ-Herb-BI-Zion-Val is going to reach its full potential. BI’s problem is not an issue of ability, it’s one of willpower and focus.
You rolled in trying to argue stupid points, first questioning the analogy, then flat out stating BI is incapable of being a plus defender. Which, again, you were WRONG about. He’s proven throughout his career his capacity. And last night was another shining example of that. BI was all over the court, protecting the rim, bodying Siakam, switching out and blocking FVV, doing everything out there to dominate the game defensively. To say he is not capable is just wrong, BI has an all defensive level ceiling if he ever wanted it, the only question with BI is does he?
Say it with me: BI has shown he can be a plus defender
This post was edited on 2/15/22 at 6:07 am
Posted on 2/15/22 at 10:47 am to Bronc
quote:
Say it with me: BI has shown he can be a plus defender
Bronc is right. As CJ said after the game, BI "was moving his puppies."
Last night was BI's best defensive game as a Pelican. Somehow, the arrival of CJ McCollum has accomplished what three head coaches and other team leaders such as Zion and Jrue could not -- convince BI to be the best defensive version of himself.
It's one of the most encouraging things that I've seen with this team in a long time. I don't know if it happened because CJ challenged him somehow, or what -- I'm just thrilled by it.
Posted on 2/15/22 at 11:04 am to GOP_Tiger
I think Ingram is starting to see the bigger picture of how you win.
quote:
Christian Clark@cclark_13·11h
Ingram: "What’s the best shot on the floor? How can we create the best shot on the floor? That’s been working out for me this season."
Posted on 2/15/22 at 3:42 pm to Bronc
quote:
he was literally a plus defender last night, so again, you are simply wrong.
Garrett Temple was literally an excellent 3pt shooter last night so anyone who says he isn't is simply wrong.
quote:
the only question with BI is does he?
We have 5+ years of evidence he doesn't want it. Maybe it's clicked and he does now. I hope so. Forgive me for wanting to see it more than once or twice before I believe he will get there.
quote:
rolled in trying to argue stupid points
quote:
it’s childish and immature.
You desperately need everyone who posts here to agree with your opinions and then melt down when anyone has a different view.
Again, I hope you are right and Ingram hits that level. Have a nice day bud.
Posted on 2/15/22 at 3:53 pm to corndeaux
quote:Bronc? Nahhhhhhhhh, you're definitely the 1st to ever suggest that.
You desperately need everyone who posts here to agree with your opinions and then melt down when anyone has a different view.
Common Denominator strikes again!!!
Posted on 2/15/22 at 4:14 pm to corndeaux
quote:
You desperately need everyone who posts here to agree with your opinions and then melt down when anyone has a different view.
Again, I hope you are right and Ingram hits that level. Have a nice day bud.
Buddy, I dont give a shite whether you agree or not, frankly, its a lot more entertaining when you are obviously wrong and keep doubling down. Corncob energy you know?
No one is debating that BI has so far lacked the want for it, that was literally the thesis of my argument: BI can and needs to step up for this project to work, but has been unwilling to truly step up. You, however, made the argument he simply can't and has never been a plus defender. Which again, is wrong. He's shown the ability, not just once, but a number of times, and last night was yet another example of the defensive ceiling BI can get to...if he wants it.
Posted on 2/15/22 at 4:34 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
No chance Portland declines that option
I'm sure they won't, but Josh Hart can opt out too. And with the way he's played this year I can definitely see him getting much more than the 2 yr 24 mil contract he's currently on.
I still think part of the reason we traded him is we weren't confident he was opting into his contract. Also, maybe we do a sign and trade and get Hart for DG and picks this offseason. I can dream right??
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