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Started By
Message
the SEC could push the envelope NOW
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:00 am
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:00 am
could or should? the idea:
1)go to a 9 game SEC schedule playing 3 teams from the opposing division. this allows the cry babies from tuscalooser and knoxville to play each other every year
2)at the end of the season, have an SEC play-off; the #1 in the west plays the #2 in the east and the #1 in the east plays the #2 in the west. the winners go to Atlanta for the SECCG.
this arrangement has several ramifications not mentioned above (you know, the cry baby one)...
1)the season must begin a week earlier or end a week later because 4 teams will now play 13 games
2)the revenues generated by the 2 xtra games should match or exceed what a NC game would bring the conference.
3)yes, this may cut down on the SEC appearances in the NC game, but not necessarily because 75% of the BCS selection is based on humans as opposed to the computer poles
4)it would be possible that 2 teams from one division will meet in Atlanta and that would, of course (for all the math challenged gumps out there), result in a rematch.
overall, i think this would increase each teams payoff annually because of the two added games and i also think we would still have great representation in the NC game. the polls would reflect the SOS and the humans would often select a one or two loss SEC team over a no loss or one loss pussy team. the ncaa? frick 'em. inform them we are having our own play off and if you want us to stay in this association, we play an xtra game. fini'.
OK, what have i missed?
also, if any gumps need me to explain any of the math or explain how under this arrangement they can still play UT every year, i'm here for you.
1)go to a 9 game SEC schedule playing 3 teams from the opposing division. this allows the cry babies from tuscalooser and knoxville to play each other every year
2)at the end of the season, have an SEC play-off; the #1 in the west plays the #2 in the east and the #1 in the east plays the #2 in the west. the winners go to Atlanta for the SECCG.
this arrangement has several ramifications not mentioned above (you know, the cry baby one)...
1)the season must begin a week earlier or end a week later because 4 teams will now play 13 games
2)the revenues generated by the 2 xtra games should match or exceed what a NC game would bring the conference.
3)yes, this may cut down on the SEC appearances in the NC game, but not necessarily because 75% of the BCS selection is based on humans as opposed to the computer poles
4)it would be possible that 2 teams from one division will meet in Atlanta and that would, of course (for all the math challenged gumps out there), result in a rematch.
overall, i think this would increase each teams payoff annually because of the two added games and i also think we would still have great representation in the NC game. the polls would reflect the SOS and the humans would often select a one or two loss SEC team over a no loss or one loss pussy team. the ncaa? frick 'em. inform them we are having our own play off and if you want us to stay in this association, we play an xtra game. fini'.
OK, what have i missed?
also, if any gumps need me to explain any of the math or explain how under this arrangement they can still play UT every year, i'm here for you.
3
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:06 am to LSU GrandDad
Why do we have to accommodate Alabama and Tennessee? If they want to play each other every year, the game could be a non-conference affair when they are not scheduled to play. Perhaps Alabama should move to the eastern division. I am tired of worrying about Alabama.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:09 am to LSU GrandDad
not sure if a 4-team conference playoff is allowed by the NCAA...
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:09 am to bearhc
Yeah. What's so important about that matchup anyway? Don't they play this weekend?
You wouldn't know it from their fans. Most of them can only talk about LSU.
You wouldn't know it from their fans. Most of them can only talk about LSU.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:17 am to LSU GrandDad
Nine game SEC regular season schedule will work perfectly; lets rivalries stay in place, allows for quick run through of other cross divisional games, etc. All you do is lose a game against a powder puff team, and that is not a big loss. You will more than offset the revenue lost from losing a powderpuff home game every year to getting an extra SEc game every other year.
Having a 4 team semifinal week is more problematic. I don't think venues would be an issue - you play the semifinals on campus and move the SECCG back a week (Ga Dome can accomodate that). The problems would be that you would have to get a waiver from the NCAA to have two teams play a total of 15 games (12 regular season, a semifinal, SECCG and bowl game). The other problem is you force bowl bids to go a week later (I don't see the NCAA moving the first week of games to earlier than Labor Day) so you have bowl bids not going out until the second weekend in December. Not sure if the early bowls would be happy with that, only have 2 weeks to promo the teams and sell tickets.
Having a 4 team semifinal week is more problematic. I don't think venues would be an issue - you play the semifinals on campus and move the SECCG back a week (Ga Dome can accomodate that). The problems would be that you would have to get a waiver from the NCAA to have two teams play a total of 15 games (12 regular season, a semifinal, SECCG and bowl game). The other problem is you force bowl bids to go a week later (I don't see the NCAA moving the first week of games to earlier than Labor Day) so you have bowl bids not going out until the second weekend in December. Not sure if the early bowls would be happy with that, only have 2 weeks to promo the teams and sell tickets.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:21 am to Chicken
quote:
not sure if a 4-team conference playoff is allowed by the NCAA...
i don't think it is Chicken. and that presents problems but right now the SEC is the 800 lb. gorilla. maybe the ncaa will amend their rules to accomodate this. surely they can see the financial benefit to them if they do; the big 10, pac 10, etc may follow the SEC's lead. remember, the conference playoff game itself was not allowed just a few years ago. the ncaa's membership voted it in and probably for the same reasons they would vote this in; power and money. the old CFA forced a lot on the ncaa.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:22 am to PJinAtl
I really doubt the SEC will move away from 4 OOC games. Those games are usually at home ($$$$) and are usually wins ($$$$).
Still, I would like to know what a 9-game conference schedule would mean in terms of revenue and affect on BCS.
Still, I would like to know what a 9-game conference schedule would mean in terms of revenue and affect on BCS.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:25 am to Chicken
quote:
not sure if a 4-team conference playoff is allowed by the NCAA...
I doubt it is.
I think the rules for playing an "extra" non-bowl game above the typical 12 are:
1. You can schedule one if you play an away game at Hawaii, in order to defray travel costs
2. If you are in a conference of at least 12 members with equal divisions, the league can hold a title game with the top qualifier from each division.
3. If you are in one of the "coach's classic" games in the first weekend of the season, you can schedule an extra game, but only if you are not in a conference with a title game.
The rules on this stuff got tightened up after the 1996 BYU team took advantage of each rule to play a total of 15 games, going 14-1 between 11 regular season games, a 1st week "coach's classic" game, an away game at Hawaii, the WAC title game, and the Cotton Bowl.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:28 am to LSU GrandDad
quote:
emember, the conference playoff game itself was not allowed just a few years ago. the ncaa's membership voted it in and probably for the same reasons they would vote this in; power and money. the old CFA forced a lot on the ncaa.
My understanding is that the rule allowing a conference championship game had been on the books for years but was never used until the SEC expanded at the start of the 90s.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:34 am to bearhc
quote:
Why do we have to accommodate Alabama and Tennessee? If they want to play each other every year, the game could be a non-conference affair when they are not scheduled to play. Perhaps Alabama should move to the eastern division. I am tired of worrying about Alabama.
The better question is why the h### do we have to accomodate Missouri?? They have ZERO history in the SEC and as the 14th and newest member they should be the ones to adapt. I find the willingness of LSU fans to jump through hoops to not offend Missouri bizarre. What's it to you guys whether Missouri goes East or West? Are you guys that worried about Missouri's travel budget or is it out of spite for Alabama that you want to see the Alabama/Tennessee game end? Do you guys want to quit playing Auburn as well?
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:50 am to Govt Tide
quote:
is it out of spite for Alabama that you want to see the Alabama/Tennessee game end? Do you guys want to quit playing Auburn as well?
what is it about you gumps? you seemingly refuse to see any other's views. we don't give a shite if you play tennessee; there is absolutely no spite there to invent. the problem is clearly and simply THE EFFECT OF A PERMANENT CROSS DIVISION RIVAL GAME WHEN THE LEAGUE GOES TO 14. ANY permanent rival game; the math means that it would only be possible to play THE OTHER 6 MEMEBERS OF THE OTHER DIVISION, whoever they may be every 6 years. THAT IS NOT OFTEN ENOUGH. bama would be affected as well; y'all would only be able to play uga, usc, florida once every 6 years unless we increse the # of conference games. NOBODY IS PICKING ON YOU. we are only questioning why WE have to pay a price for your game with UT. so, answer that (please). Why does LSU and the other 12 SEC members have to pay such a high price just to preserve your game with UT?
Posted on 10/19/11 at 9:55 am to LSU GrandDad
quote:
the problem is clearly and simply THE EFFECT OF A PERMANENT CROSS DIVISION RIVAL GAME WHEN THE LEAGUE GOES TO 14. ANY permanent rival game; the math means that it would only be possible to play THE OTHER 6 MEMEBERS OF THE OTHER DIVISION, whoever they may be every 6 years. THAT IS NOT OFTEN ENOUGH
Please stop criticizing our fan bases' math ability until you sort your own out.
Unless you increase the number of conference games to 9, it will take you SEVEN years to play every team in the other division even if you eliminate the permanent cross division rivalry game.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 10:00 am to Govt Tide
quote:
The better question is why the h### do we have to accomodate Missouri?? They have ZERO history in the SEC and as the 14th and newest member they should be the ones to adapt. I find the willingness of LSU fans to jump through hoops to not offend Missouri bizarre. What's it to you guys whether Missouri goes East or West? Are you guys that worried about Missouri's travel budget or is it out of spite for Alabama that you want to see the Alabama/Tennessee game end? Do you guys want to quit playing Auburn as well?
It's not about Mizzou, it's about Alabama wagging the dog.
The only four teams in the conference who are adamant that there be permanent cross-division opponents are Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, and Auburn.
Of those, the ones causing the biggest fuss about keeping their traditions is Alabama, who is insisting that things be done their way or not at all.
Frankly, I'm about ready to see both Bama and Auburn kicked over to the East in exchange for Kentucky, even though that means the divisions will be unbalanced from a historical perspective with five of the "power six" in the East.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 10:06 am to Chicken
quote:I know that for the most part the games are at home and are to pad the wins column.
I really doubt the SEC will move away from 4 OOC games. Those games are usually at home ($$$$) and are usually wins ($$$$).
Still, I would like to know what a 9-game conference schedule would mean in terms of revenue and affect on BCS.
However, I think that from a money standpoint an extra SEC game would be somewhat near balancing it on the books. My math on this below:
Auburn vs powderpuff team:
Face value of the ticket is roughly $50. You may sell 80,000 tickets for that game so 80,000 x 50 = $4,000,000 in ticket revenue.
Say you have to pay a powderpuff $750,000-$1,000,000 to come play. Your profit margin then is between $3 and $3.25 million. Multiply that by 2 and you get between 6 and 6.5 million.
Now with an additional SEC game every other year, face value of a ticket can be $70 or $80. Sell it out at 87,000 people and you have between $6,090,000 and $6,960,000 in ticket revenue. You aren't paying the other school to come there so that revenue at least balances, if not exceeds a Utah State, a Buffalo, a Georgia State coming in to play.
Also, you have to figure with more people in the stands you have more concession sales, so that revenue increases as well.
As for BCS rankings, 9 conference games could only help with strength of schedule. In 2004 if Auburn could have played (and beaten) a Florida team that even though they went 7-4 were ranked in the top 25 at the time of bowl bids, who is to say AU doesn't get in the title game. Now yes in overall bowl elligibility it would maybe impact that in getting to the 6 win level, but if you are really worried about that then you schedule your 3 OOC games against pushovers and don't play another BCS program as an OOC.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 10:09 am to mre
quote:
it will take you SEVEN years to play every team in the other division even if you eliminate the permanent cross division rivalry game.
first of all, i was only kidding about the math. the bama retorts i read completely dismissed any of the math. sorry.
secondly, if the permanent cross division rivaly game is eliminated, you will have 2 games/yr and 7 possibles; so the number is 3.5 yrs, right? maybe you are assuming that we go on with the 2 yr home and home like we have now? i was not. but clearly, if the permanent rivalry is opted for, the rotation is one game per year and 6 teams to rotate which is once every 6 yrs (unless you do the home and home which of course increases the time frame). you have a damn good point about increasing the number of conference games to 9; it may have to be done. Posted on 10/19/11 at 10:26 am to LSU GrandDad
I would wager that the home and home aspect will be maintained for reasons of competitive fairness.
As I posted in the other thread, maintaining the permanent cross-division rivalries is untenable in a 14 team conference without moving to a 9 game schedule, which is one reason why I think that's going to happen.
It's going to be tough to get the votes you need to end the permanent cross-divisional rivalry game, and it's not just Alabama standing in your way. Expanding to 14 will result in either one of two situations: the team will be added to the east or the team will be added to the west.
If the team is added to the east, then you have Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, and Tennessee who will be against ending their cross-divisional games. That's 4 votes right there.
The only way cross divisional rivalry games might end is if Auburn moves east. In this scenario only Alabama, Auburn, and Tennessee will have games threatened by the end of permanent cross-divisional rivalry games. In this case there are only 3 votes against, which is not enough to protect the games. Of course, this is assuming that teams like Vandy, Kentucky, and maybe SCAR would prefer to add Auburn over a team like Mizzou or, god forbid, WVU.
As I posted in the other thread, maintaining the permanent cross-division rivalries is untenable in a 14 team conference without moving to a 9 game schedule, which is one reason why I think that's going to happen.
It's going to be tough to get the votes you need to end the permanent cross-divisional rivalry game, and it's not just Alabama standing in your way. Expanding to 14 will result in either one of two situations: the team will be added to the east or the team will be added to the west.
If the team is added to the east, then you have Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, and Tennessee who will be against ending their cross-divisional games. That's 4 votes right there.
The only way cross divisional rivalry games might end is if Auburn moves east. In this scenario only Alabama, Auburn, and Tennessee will have games threatened by the end of permanent cross-divisional rivalry games. In this case there are only 3 votes against, which is not enough to protect the games. Of course, this is assuming that teams like Vandy, Kentucky, and maybe SCAR would prefer to add Auburn over a team like Mizzou or, god forbid, WVU.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 10:43 am to mre
even though the home and home can be worked out over a multiple year basis, i agree that it will not be done. i think, after all of this banter, that we are actually concluding the same thing. somebody is gonna be hurt with this expansion. we have played florida every year since i was a boy (a looonggg time ago), even before spurrier was their QB, and i would like that to continue. TO ME, its just as important as playing UT is to you. so if suddenly, we get to play USC or Mizzou every year. that will suck big time. i think the SEC should go ahead and adopt a 9 game conference schedule and let the pollsters take care of the rest. i really like playing UT, UGA and Florida in the east and BAMA, AU and ARKY in the west and would love to preserve as many of those games as possible. i tire of people saying LSU doesn't have a real rivalry. imo, we have several.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 10:50 am to LSU GrandDad
Sounds like a 9 game conference schedule with each team keeping a permanent cross division rival with Mizzou added to the east is the best solution for everyone.
Posted on 10/19/11 at 10:59 am to mre
quote:
Sounds like a 9 game conference schedule with each team keeping a permanent cross division rival with Mizzou added to the east is the best solution for everyone.
9 games is essential, but I think the perm x div game is just a temp move to placate the whiners until we go to 16 (for 2 years perm/no perm gives you the same sched anyway). But if we don't go to 16 soon, the perm game must go as 6 years is too long. With 16 teams and pods, the number of perm games is minimized so you could live with it like we do now even though it still fricks things up.
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