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PSA: The most important offensive stat is not Scoring Offense or Total Offense...
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:22 am
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:22 am
it's points per drive.
Hear me out. For every possession you have, the opposing team also gets a possession (generally). So if you score more points per possession than the other team does, you win the football game (assuming an equal number of possessions for each team). This is a mathmatical fact and is not debatable.
Again, assuming equal possessions, whoever has the most points per possession at the end of the game wins the football game. Period.
_______________________________
Let's say we want to compare two offenses to see which one is better, and by better, I mean which offense contributes most to winning a football game, because that's what matters most, right?. How about LSU and Texas Tech?
From what I've seen, most of the rant will point to the Scoring Offense rankings:
Well shite, that's a pretty big disparity, if all things are equal and both defenses are the same for the sake of argument, Texas Tech obviously has a better offense and will win this game right? Not necessarily, because scoring offense (and total offense) fails to account for two important factors:
1. possessions per game
2. style of play (which is directly related to possessions per game)
_______________________________
This is where Points per Drive picks up where Scoring and Total Offense fall short. It allows you to compare apples and oranges of offenses (LSU and TT) by equalizing the number of opportunities for each offense affected by their style of play (pro-style ish vs. air raid HUNH).
Points per Drive rankings: link (under OPD 2nd column)
So based on this, I can reasonably say that despite the big difference in Scoring Offense, LSU's offense was at least as good or better than Texas Tech's offense this year given that starting field position, strength of schedule, and special teams/defensive scores were about the same.
So why am I posting this? Because rantards on the t/Rant and Coaching Changes board have recently been egregiously and blindly judging and comparing offenses and O-coordinators solely based on how many points or yards were put up without taking into account how much style of play affects those stats.
Things I am saying:
- Scoring and Total offense alone should not be used as a measure to judge how good that offense is
Things I am not saying:
- That LSU had an elite offense this year (we were good, but not great, and probably somewhere in the 25-35 range after adjusting for SOS and kicking woes.)
- That an air-raid offense who scores more will automatically be the answer to all of our problems (as our defense would likely be giving up proportionally more ppg as well).
/ rant
___________________________________________________
TLDR:
Only using Scoring and Total offensive rankings alone without taking anything else into account is bad and you should feel bad.
Points per Drive is GOAT.
Hear me out. For every possession you have, the opposing team also gets a possession (generally). So if you score more points per possession than the other team does, you win the football game (assuming an equal number of possessions for each team). This is a mathmatical fact and is not debatable.
Again, assuming equal possessions, whoever has the most points per possession at the end of the game wins the football game. Period.
_______________________________
Let's say we want to compare two offenses to see which one is better, and by better, I mean which offense contributes most to winning a football game, because that's what matters most, right?. How about LSU and Texas Tech?
From what I've seen, most of the rant will point to the Scoring Offense rankings:
quote:
23. Texas Tech .... 34.4 ppg
76. LSU ............... 27.2 ppg
Well shite, that's a pretty big disparity, if all things are equal and both defenses are the same for the sake of argument, Texas Tech obviously has a better offense and will win this game right? Not necessarily, because scoring offense (and total offense) fails to account for two important factors:
1. possessions per game
2. style of play (which is directly related to possessions per game)
_______________________________
This is where Points per Drive picks up where Scoring and Total Offense fall short. It allows you to compare apples and oranges of offenses (LSU and TT) by equalizing the number of opportunities for each offense affected by their style of play (pro-style ish vs. air raid HUNH).
Points per Drive rankings: link (under OPD 2nd column)
quote:
44. LSU .............. 2.35 ppd
48.Texas Tech .... 2.30 ppd
So based on this, I can reasonably say that despite the big difference in Scoring Offense, LSU's offense was at least as good or better than Texas Tech's offense this year given that starting field position, strength of schedule, and special teams/defensive scores were about the same.
So why am I posting this? Because rantards on the t/Rant and Coaching Changes board have recently been egregiously and blindly judging and comparing offenses and O-coordinators solely based on how many points or yards were put up without taking into account how much style of play affects those stats.
Things I am saying:
- Scoring and Total offense alone should not be used as a measure to judge how good that offense is
Things I am not saying:
- That LSU had an elite offense this year (we were good, but not great, and probably somewhere in the 25-35 range after adjusting for SOS and kicking woes.)
- That an air-raid offense who scores more will automatically be the answer to all of our problems (as our defense would likely be giving up proportionally more ppg as well).
/ rant
___________________________________________________
TLDR:
Only using Scoring and Total offensive rankings alone without taking anything else into account is bad and you should feel bad.
Points per Drive is GOAT.
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 12:36 am
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:25 am to 904
That being said, South Florida ranked 20th in ppd, which is better that what I thought they would be. I'd probably put Gilbert and his offense around 25 or 30 after taking into account SOS (they were in the 90s or something)
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:27 am to 904
What were the 03 Arizona Cardinals in points per drive
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:35 am to ShaneTheLegLechler
The 03 Arizona Cardinals scored 23 points per drive.
Actually they were awful.
Actually they were awful.
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 12:40 am
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:47 am to 904
quote:
Again, assuming equal possessions
Hate to tell you bud, but if you're assuming equal possessions, then ppg for each team will be the same ratio as ppd for each team.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 12:51 am to emanresu
quote:
Hate to tell you bud, but if you're assuming equal possessions, then ppg for each team will be the same ratio as ppd for each team.
Assuming equal possessions means that one team didn't get more offensive possessions than the other because they happened to get the ball last during both halves or something.
It's not referring to possessions over the course of a season there.
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 12:58 am
Posted on 1/8/18 at 1:00 am to emanresu
quote:
Hate to tell you bud, but if you're assuming equal possessions, then ppg for each team will be the same ratio as ppd for each team
Right? Lol
Posted on 1/8/18 at 1:02 am to 904
But if you have a good defense that can get stops and turnovers, wouldn't you want more possessions to possibly get more points?
Posted on 1/8/18 at 1:13 am to SportTiger1
quote:
But if you have a good defense that can get stops and turnovers, wouldn't you want more possessions to possibly get more points?
Sure, so long as your defense doesn't start being negatively affected by your offense. But if your points per drive is higher than the other team's over the course of the game, you get the W either way.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 5:01 am to emanresu
quote:how many HUNH offenses are in the CFP and / or won a Natty? Why?
Hate to tell you bud, but if you're assuming equal possessions, then ppg for each team will be the same ratio as ppd for each team.
It kills your defense. You have to be balanced. Look at OU this season. They could run the shite out of the football and did so against UGA. They ran a hybrid of HUNH. Yet they gave up 48 and lost.
This is about special teams and other facets that impact the game as any.
In 2011, the offense was not all that great. It depended on being more physical than the other team. Controlling the clock and shortening the possessions for the other team. Just ask WVU and Oregon.
What put that team over the top was it’s defense giving it great starting field position AND special teams.
Special teams were the best I’ve see ever and I’ve been following the Tigers since the ‘50’s.
No one stat can ever be used in a vacuum.
It is still about controlling the clock and playing excellent defense and special teams.
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 6:17 am
Posted on 1/8/18 at 5:06 am to 904
I thought for sure you were gonna say it’s who brings the bbq sauce
Posted on 1/8/18 at 5:33 am to 904
Interesting stuff - thank you for posting
Posted on 1/8/18 at 6:09 am to 904
Ok. Now I am completely satisfied with the abortion that is LSU's offense. All because we may be better than Texas Tech in some rarely discussed statistic. Ensminger it is. No one with a brain, like the people who get paid to analyze, believe that LSU had an elite offense. Please look at the statistics in the four losses and pay attention to those facts. Could not score and paid for it. Shut down by MSU, Troy, and Notre Dame. Would have been beaten by 21 in the Bama game, if Saban wanted it to end that way. Also struggled to score in many other games against really weak teams, like BYU, Syracuse, UF, and UT.
This post was edited on 1/8/18 at 6:21 am
Posted on 1/8/18 at 6:35 am to A1tiger
In what world did the OP say LSU’s offense was elite? All he said was looking at total averages as opposed to normalized averages can give you a false sense of disparity between two very different styles of football
Posted on 1/8/18 at 6:42 am to 904
“assuming defenses are equal”
seriously?
if you have to completely make up stats about the other half of the team, your point pretty much sucks.
scoring defense:
18. LSU......18.9
99. Texas Tech.....32.2
seriously?
if you have to completely make up stats about the other half of the team, your point pretty much sucks.
scoring defense:
18. LSU......18.9
99. Texas Tech.....32.2
Posted on 1/8/18 at 7:38 am to Nutriaitch
quote:
if you have to completely make up stats about the other half of the team, your point pretty much sucks.
So when your goal is to try to find out which of two offenses is better, you put half the weight into how good the defenses are? Makes sense.
Also, just like scoring offense is biased towards hunh teams, scoring defense is biased towards pro-style teams.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 7:46 am to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
All he said was looking at total averages as opposed to normalized averages can give you a false sense of disparity between two very different styles of football
Nailed it
Posted on 1/8/18 at 7:51 am to Oilfieldbiology
He said "good", which they were not
Posted on 1/8/18 at 8:00 am to 904
quote:
So when your goal is to try to find out which of two offenses is better, you put half the weight into how good the defenses are?
when trying to put together a TEAM, you damn right i take into account how good my defense is.
i don't think it's just a coincidence that all of those wide open offenses are paired with below average defenses.
the two sides do have an effect on each other.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 8:12 am to Nutriaitch
quote:
when trying to put together a TEAM, you damn right i take into account how good my defense is.
Damn right.
But we've got our defensive staff intact. We're trying to fill an OC position right now.
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