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Message
re: PJ Fleck has a better resume than Herman
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:18 am to Salmon
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:18 am to Salmon
quote:
doubt that
I guess you weren't around back then. BR let out a collective "who??" when his name popped up right before he took the job.
Evangel HC Dennis Dunn was getting more run for the job at that point. Not even kidding.
This post was edited on 10/24/16 at 11:20 am
3
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:21 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
plus 2 as a player
means very little as far as coaching resume.
quote:
When Mike Nolan cut him from the 49ers he offered to keep him on as a coach but Tressel contacted him too and he ended up at tOSU
now i get it, he played for the 49ers
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:23 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
means very little as far as coaching resume.
well considering how many elite coaches were never coordinators i'd say it means about as much as Herman's time as an OC.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:25 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Evangel HC Dennis Dunn was getting more run for the job at that point. Not even kidding.
I never once heard that, so I'm not sure were Dunn as getting more run.
Guys like Dennis Erickson, Phil Bennett, Mark Richt were some of the names i remember, but not a HS coach and certainly not one from Evangel of all places
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:27 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
What "tree" is Nick Saban from?
Forget his name, Coached for the Browns then the Patriots for a while. Has PJ Fleck invented a new style of offense like Urban Meyer? Did he play QB for a decade in teh NFL?
quote:
I don't think it's any more or less relevant than Herman's time as a coordinator.
If you don't think being an Offensive Coordinator for a Championship College team is more relevant than being a WR coach for the 2012 Tampa Bay Bucs, i don't know what to say to you. I think you learn a lot playing football.
And i do put value on playing NFl football. Look at Harbaugh and Pederson (Eagles HC).
BUt they guy wasn't a QB, and he wasn't around all that long. And he wasn't on good teams.
quote:
Dude he's at Western Michigan not the Seattle Seahawks.
So he isn't playing he Seattle Seahawks. I think He is a good coach, don't get me wrong, but in these smaller conferences the cream rises to the top in a big way, but that doesn't really mean they are the best ever, but better than the coaches at (Insert directional Michigan team)
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:28 am to H-Town Tiger
Not saying he was actually in the running but there was more talk of him around town than there was of Saban.
Dunn's name was on the TJ Ribs "big board" which people were voting on & i distinctly remember hearing a few callers to Hanngriff asking too. it sticks out because even though i was younger i thought it was a terrible terrible idea.
Dunn's name was on the TJ Ribs "big board" which people were voting on & i distinctly remember hearing a few callers to Hanngriff asking too. it sticks out because even though i was younger i thought it was a terrible terrible idea.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:29 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I guess you weren't around back then. BR let out a collective "who??" when his name popped up right before he took the job.
I was...I guess those people didn't follow college football
Saban was not unknown when LSU hired him.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:32 am to SammyTiger
quote:
Forget his name, Coached for the Browns then the Patriots for a while.
Saban had been around a long time at that point.
the point is, the concept of coaching "trees" being predictive of future success is silly. that's how you get Charlie Weiss and Will Muschamp as your HC.
quote:
If you don't think being an Offensive Coordinator for a Championship College team is more relevant than being a WR coach for the 2012 Tampa Bay Bucs, i don't know what to say to you.
Being a great coordinator requires a totally different skillset than being a great HC.
I like Herman and I'll be very happy if we get him. I just don't want to hear let's give him 6 million but Fleck shouldn't even get an interview, that's all.
quote:
but in these smaller conferences the cream rises to the top in a big way, but that doesn't really mean they are the best ever, but better than the coaches at (Insert directional Michigan team)
I understand that, but after doing research on him and listening to him talk about how he develops and builds his program I'm convinced he's the next big thing and i think if he got an interview he would blow Alleva away.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:33 am to SammyTiger
quote:
I think the biggest difference comes down to this
1. HC records. Herman is still 19-3 Fleck is 25-21. Houston wasn't Briles or Sumlins team when Herman took over. Likewise Western Michigan was some dumpster fire under Bill Culbit.
2. Signature wins. You are gonna lose some games either way at a smaller school. But what si PJ Fleck's signature win? #24 Toledo last year? His Schedule this year couldn't be easier.
3) Would you rather hire from the Urban Meyer Coaching tree or the Greg Schiano Coaching tree?
4) I think you over value Fleck's 2 years "playing" for the 49ers, and 1 year coaching for Greg Schiano in Tampa Bay. Look at Dave Aranda. Dude didn't even play college ball and he is as good a DC as anyone.
5) As far as Fleck being a "known commodity" he is 25-21 as a head coach. Career high of 8 wins in a season. I think he will have a fine year this year, but the schedule is so damn easy and there is no distractions out there.
First, thank you for some valid debate vs the other crap that is spewed.
Second, I think they both can be fantastic coaches. Time will tell. However, to many people dismiss fleck when there are literally minor differences in the two.
Fleck spent time at ohio state under Jim Tressel. he's been around a big program and a legendary coach as well. I'm not sure hiring from a particular coaching tree is smart. Jimbo is the only coach under saban to have success. There have been many coaches in the nfl from the bill b. coaching tree and it hasn't been a success.
I agree you are going to lose games. however, Fleck went from losing games and building a program, not a team, to uncharted territory. Herman took over a team that had won 8 games the year before he got there. That program has seen success under a number of different coaches. W Michigan hasn't. It's not like herman has built houston. If he had been there for four years and accomplishing what he has accomplished, This would be a no brainer.
I like the fact Fleck only won one game in year one. He has had to face adversity and knew how to overcome it. We are starting to see Herman wobble in his last three games. Do we know how and if he can overcome it? Have teams figured him out? still to many unanswered questions.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:35 am to Draconian Sanctions
I would worry about Fleck and recruiting.
Herman has proven that he can recruit and is now familiar with Texas and the Houston area, which LSU recruits heavily.
Sell me on Fleck's recruiting abilities.
Herman has proven that he can recruit and is now familiar with Texas and the Houston area, which LSU recruits heavily.
Sell me on Fleck's recruiting abilities.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:37 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I understand that, but after doing research on him and listening to him talk about how he develops and builds his program I'm convinced he's the next big thing and i think if he got an interview he would blow Alleva away.
But thats talk. It doesn't matter till he actually beats someone.
Herman beat a 10 win FSU last year, and a OU team that will likely get 10 wins this year. (only losses are to Houston and OSU)
Thats the kind of stuff that sets aside a small school with a good record. Fleck is having a great year, but I don't see a crown jewel on his schedule to top the thing off.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:38 am to Salmon
quote:
Sell me on Fleck's recruiting abilities.
He's had the best class in the MAC 3 years running & on par with lower level p5 schools, which is as good you can do at WMU. He comes off as very real & would imagine that translates well.
I understand the gut feeling that you need a guy who "knows" the area but history shows that if you can recruit you can recruit & geography isn't really a factor.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:39 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
well considering how many elite coaches were never coordinators i'd say it means about as much as Herman's time as an OC
this is just asinine, I mean if you like Fleck more than Herman that's cool, and justifiable but at least stick with a relevant argument.
ETA: I'd wager a lot more elite coaches spent time as an OC or DC than did not.
ETA2: 10 years as an OC at 4 schools is a little more impressive and WAY more relevant than 2 years as a WR in the NFL.
This post was edited on 10/24/16 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:41 am to PennyPacker
quote:i agree - several posters on the CCB claim that if you've never had to run at least one side of the football then you should automatically be disqualified from consideration. seems silly to me.
well in that case Urban, Harbaugh, and Dabo shouldn't be head coaches....... and yes they are all coaching teams in the top 10.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:43 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I understand the gut feeling that you need a guy who "knows" the area but history shows that if you can recruit you can recruit & geography isn't really a factor.
its less about Herman and knowing the area and more that he got a 5* DT to go to Houston
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:44 am to Salmon
quote:
doubt that considering LSU played Saban a few years prior and that Saban upset the #1 team the year before
and Saban never won a bowl game or Big Ten Championship either. Best finish in the Big Ten was tied for 2nd, which was his last year. He was a .500 coach for 4 of the 5 years he was a coach.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:46 am to PennyPacker
cool...
Posted on 10/24/16 at 11:53 am to Salmon
quote:
got a 5* DT to go to Houston
Did he?? or did he hire the High School coach of that 5* DT and that is why he went to Houston? Not saying it's dirty by any means but would he have went there otherwise?
Posted on 10/24/16 at 12:28 pm to PennyPacker
Fleck would recruit his fricking arse off at LSU.
WMU is historically the worst program in the MAC and has had horrible recruiting forever and he is bringing in P5 school level classes.
Its insane.
I'd take Fleck over a lot of other guys if he'd agree to keep Aranda. Dude has performed absolute miracles at WMU and you know our talent level would remain elite with him here.
WMU is historically the worst program in the MAC and has had horrible recruiting forever and he is bringing in P5 school level classes.
Its insane.
I'd take Fleck over a lot of other guys if he'd agree to keep Aranda. Dude has performed absolute miracles at WMU and you know our talent level would remain elite with him here.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 12:50 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
If you don't think being an Offensive Coordinator for a Championship College team is more relevant than being a WR coach for the 2012 Tampa Bay Bucs, i don't know what to say to you. I think you learn a lot playing football.
Well, you need to hire GARY CROWTON!
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