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re: If UGA flames out in their first game, does that sour a potential run-heavy offense?

Posted on 12/12/21 at 5:55 pm to
Posted by lostinbr
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
9298 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 5:55 pm to
quote:

Clemson, tOSU, OU, LSU did not run the type of offense it sounds like you are advocating and it’s certainly not the same as UGA or UM. As SFP has said passing to set up the run is different than the playing in a phone booth like Les Miles preferred. Even teams like Baylor w Briles and Oregon under Chip Kelly were spread out runs, not pound it from the I.

That’s the thing though - very few people would argue that “pounding it from the I” is a remotely good idea in this day and age. If OP’s argument is that we don’t need to get into 22 personnel and run toss dive then.. well.. duh.

But that does not appear to be what he’s saying. It seems that he is saying that modern offenses have to be “pass first” to win a championship, which is just not true by any objective measure. I, along with others, have pointed out that the teams OP mentioned are usually well over 50% run.

In fact, LSU’s 2019 team had the lowest run percentage of any national champion in the CFP era. And there’s only one other team on that list (2017 Clemson) that ran the ball less than 50% of the time.

The counter-argument is “yeah but I don’t care about run percentage.” Well.. OK, give me another objective measure then? If you want to look at these coaches’ philosophies you’ll find that for most of them, everything they do is built on the running game. Urban Meyer is a read option, dual-threat QB guy. Sarkisian has been quoted as saying “we believe in running the football and that in turn creates things in the passing game.” Kiffin’s known for using a ton of misdirection to keep defenses on their heels while also using a more pro-style passing attack.

The best example of a truly “pass-first” guy who has had a lot of success is probably Lincoln Riley, who comes from the Mike Leach coaching tree. But one could argue A) that Riley hasn’t ever won a playoff game despite being the most successful air raid disciple and B) that his biggest contributions to the air raid were actually what he was able to do in the running game - specifically the RPO and the wishbone concepts he sprinkled in with Jalen Hurts.

Anyhow, I digress - most people are not saying that you have to line up in the I and pound the rock, or that passing offense isn’t important. But an innovative passing attack without a running game won’t get it done. Neither will the opposite. You have to be solid in both phases. The name of the game today is balance. And LSU’s offense the past two years should be a great example of why.
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59094 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:02 pm to
quote:

That’s the thing though - very few people would argue that “pounding it from the I” is a remotely good idea in this day and age. If OP’s argument is that we don’t need to get into 22 personnel and run toss dive then..


go back and read the poster i was responding to, while he did not explicitly say 22 personnel and I, the philosophy he's arguing for is pretty much that
He mentioned the service academies and Joe Brady getting fired (may just be trolling) as if those were valid points.

however pass first does not mean pass 100% either, i think some are getting too hung on the run/pass split percentages but how much is garbage time, sacks count as runs and so does a play where the QB drops back and winds up up running etc. Perhaps the better way to put it is that most teams should pass more than they do.

another questions is, is it simply a matter of getting better QBs? how much is development/scheme?
Posted by lostinbr
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
9298 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 8:38 pm to
quote:

go back and read the poster i was responding to, while he did not explicitly say 22 personnel and I, the philosophy he's arguing for is pretty much that
He mentioned the service academies and Joe Brady getting fired (may just be trolling) as if those were valid points.

That particular poster does sound like a grandpa telling people to get off his lawn. That I will concede.
quote:

however pass first does not mean pass 100% either, i think some are getting too hung on the run/pass split percentages but how much is garbage time, sacks count as runs and so does a play where the QB drops back and winds up up running etc. Perhaps the better way to put it is that most teams should pass more than they do.

All of these things play into the percentages, sure. But having a great rushing attack is a pretty common theme for championship caliber teams. For that matter, so is having a great QB.

Which is kind of my point. It’s all about balance. LSU in 2019 was a true pass-first offense, which opened up great opportunities for CEH (or Burrow for that matter) on the ground. It was awesome. But that’s not really indicative of where college football is, as a whole. We had a generational QB, an NFL RB, and 3 NFL OL on that team. So we could do whatever the hell we wanted.

It’s much more common for the running game to be the glue, so to speak, even in 2021. The last 2 years, we haven’t had a generational QB. And our lack of any sophistication in the running game burned us until we got away from the simple zones and started sprinkling in some power.

We may never field a team again with the type of talent that we had in 2019. So I don’t think we should be chasing that ghost. I don’t ever want to see us in 22 personnel again either (unless it’s goal line or something) but I would love to see some power spread concepts get implemented.
This post was edited on 12/12/21 at 8:38 pm
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59094 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 9:41 pm to
quote:

We may never field a team again with the type of talent that we had in 2019. So I don’t think we should be chasing that ghost.


we are talking about winning the National Title, so while you don't have to equal to one of the greatest teams of all time, you do have to be pretty stacked

quote:

It’s much more common for the running game to be the glue, so to speak, even in 2021


this is where we disagree. Again pass first is not pass only, but the advanced stats show passing is more efficient.
Posted by TrueLefty
St. Louis County
Member since Oct 2017
14901 posts
Posted on 12/12/21 at 9:48 pm to
quote:

So are you anti kelly now? You seemed really high on him when the news first broke but you have been posting anti threads every day recently


LSU hired over 50 years old coaches i the last 3 hiring! What the trend? Older HC that ended up getting fired and collecting huge payout.
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