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re: Ed Orgeron's energy making an impact on LSU's recruiting
Posted on 11/4/16 at 5:12 pm to Goldrush25
Posted on 11/4/16 at 5:12 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
So it's your assertion that the most talented team always wins the NC?
What about those years when FSU and OSU won?
So it's your assertion that the team with the most talent doesn't have the undoubtedly best chance of winning on a consistent basis. "Yea but jacob hester was a two star..." Just ignorant logic. Without Superior talent OSU and FSU would not have been in the top 5, once you're there coaching and execution win out.
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Posted on 11/4/16 at 5:30 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
There is nothing special about Saban as a coach other than the talent he brings in.
Posted on 11/4/16 at 5:33 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
If he can bring in top 2 recruiting classes regularly he should be given the HC job, that is how Alabama wins.
The difference in talent between Bama and LSU is not great enough to account for how dominant they've been over LSU.
When you look at the number of players in the NFL there is a real argument to be made that LSU has had better talent. Bama's recruiting rankings have been better but overall production in the pros is a push or even a LSU lean.
The idea that recruiting has been LSU's problem is incredibly off the mark. The problem has been production with the talent. Over the long run that can only be attributed to inferior coaching.
Posted on 11/4/16 at 5:38 pm to AUCE05
quote:
One thing that has impressed me about O; he was given a HC job at Ole Miss too soon in his career
and he failed and because of this many idiots on this board think that disqualifies him. I say bull shite. some of the most successful people in all walks of like failed somewhere in their past.
personally, I hope O wins out and LSU has to give him a shot. I think the man is ready.
the last thing I want to see is coach O recruiting against us in Louisiana.
Posted on 11/4/16 at 5:39 pm to CalTiger53
quote:
Absolutely not. Show me one year that Saban has won without talent advantage and we are not talking having better talent we are talking about #1 recruiting class year after year. It is amazing that Saban loses some games with those players.
But you have to see that recruiting is why Saban is the best in college football but can't honestly believe the man can't coach. Miles had arguably as much success recruiting as Saban and he is unemployed.. .
Posted on 11/4/16 at 5:43 pm to 7nette
quote:
Which SEC school has been the closest to Bama in recruiting since Saban got there? We're already close, having a recruit rated 5 stars instead of 4 would not have changed a single thing.
except at QB; except at LB; except at DL; except at OL.
our recruiting ratings have been DOMINATED by RB, WR and DB. not enough to win it all. chavis, haley and stud butt fricked us in recruiting the trenches and linebackers and miles watched it happen.
Posted on 11/4/16 at 6:47 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
recruiting rankings were pretty arbitrary back then
Recruiting rankings may have improved a bit since then, but it wasn't as arbitrary as you make it seem. Besides that, my point remains. There is no way in hell we were bringing in #1 ranked recruiting classes for 4 years straight when Saban just arrived on campus trying to pull us out of the gutter. I watched every game (sometimes twice) and our talent wasn't head and shoulders above the likes of Florida, Georgia, Oklahoma, USC, etc. We had a damn good coach who helped bring us through to the BCSCG
Posted on 11/4/16 at 7:18 pm to LSU GrandDad
quote:
except at QB; except at LB; except at DL; except at OL.
But the evidence contradicts that. Alabama doesn't have a quality QB in the NFL and when you look at the other positions you think are positions of talent weakness we see:
Kwon Alexander Tampa Bay Buccaneers Linebacker
Lamin Barrow Chicago Bears Linebacker
Deion Jones Atlanta Falcons Linebacker
Barkevious Mingo New England Patriots Linebacker
Kevin Minter Arizona Cardinals Linebacker
Perry Riley Jr. Oakland Raiders Linebacker
Kelvin Sheppard New York Giants Linebacker
Vadal Alexander Oakland Raiders Guard
Joe Barksdale San Diego Chargers Offensive Tackle
La'el Collins Dallas Cowboys Offensive Lineman
Dillon Gordon Philadelphia Eagles Guard
Jerald Hawkins Pittsburgh Steelers Offensive Tackle
Trai Turner Carolina Panthers Guard
Andrew Whitworth Cincinnati Bengals Offensive Tackle
Michael Brockers Los Angeles Rams Defensive Tackle
Glenn Dorsey San Francisco 49ers Defensive Lineman
Lavar Edwards Indianapolis Colts Defensive End
Ego Ferguson Chicago Bears Defensive Lineman
Danielle Hunter Minnesota Vikings Defensive End
Tyson Jackson Atlanta Falcons Defensive End
Ricky Jean Francois Washington Redskins Defensive End
Bennie Logan Philadelphia Eagles Defensive Tackle
Kyle Williams Buffalo Bills Defensive Tackle
Al Woods Tennessee Titans Nose Tackle
No reasonable person can look at this and attribute the relative success to talent. The NFL is not there to prop up our sense of how talented LSU alumni are. They don't care. They just want people who can play at the highest level.
Posted on 11/4/16 at 10:45 pm to molsusports
quote:
The idea that recruiting has been LSU's problem is incredibly off the mark. The problem has been production with the talent. Over the long run that can only be attributed to inferior coaching.
that's a pretty superficial view of the situation.
Bama's #1 ranked classes have given them depths of talent that goes deep into the roster. 16 5 star players on the team compared to 6 for LSU. Bamas 3rd team d-line is comparable to our starting d-line. Bamas 2nd team o-line is equal to our starting oline. Bama WR's are better than our WR's. Bama starting LB's are better than our starting LB's, Bamas' 3rd team LB's are better than our 2nd team lb's. Bama's freshman starting QB is more of a threat and harder to defense than our starting QB. There is no area or position group that they aren't deeper and better than us other than at RB this year.
quote:
The idea that recruiting has been LSU's problem is incredibly off the mark
LSU has had very very good recruiting while Alabama completely dominated everyone in recruiting for about the last 8 years and no one else even comes close. We recruit players hard to come to LSU in Louisiana , Texas, Mississippi, and Florida. Alabama evaluates and then selects what players they want from all areas of the country.
Posted on 11/4/16 at 11:26 pm to boxcar willie
quote:Interesting thought process. So one game decides who's the better coach for you? Do you think Hugh Freeze and Kevin Sumlin are better coaches than Nick Saban? What about Charlie Weatherbie? Just curious.
how else would you explain it? If LSU , led by Coach Orgeron, overcomes the great talent advantage that Bama has and the biased officiating as well, to somehow pull a miracle out his arse and win this game. What could it be attributed to other than that coach O is just a much better game day coach and all around better coach than Saban?
Posted on 11/5/16 at 8:27 am to abellsujr
quote:
So one game decides who's the better coach for you? Do you think Hugh Freeze and Kevin Sumlin are better coaches than Nick Saban? What about Charlie Weatherbie? Just curious.
on that particular day, yes , they out coached Saban. Saban has always been way over rated as a game day coach, and as a game prep coach. Mnay coach s are his equals or his superiors in those areas. Like I said , his strength, and it is a great one, is in the gathering recruiting of talent.
Posted on 11/5/16 at 10:06 am to boxcar willie
quote:Based on that logic, the best you could say about O if he wins is that he got the better of Saban on that day. Thinking about it any other way is kind of absent minded based on what both have accomplished. This is common understanding to most people. Believing anything else is a little bit of blind "fan boy" behavior.
on that particular day, yes , they out coached Saban. Saban has always been way over rated as a game day coach, and as a game prep coach. Mnay coach s are his equals or his superiors in those areas. Like I said , his strength, and it is a great one, is in the gathering recruiting of talent.
It's about overall results.
This post was edited on 11/5/16 at 10:20 am
Posted on 11/5/16 at 3:30 pm to abellsujr
quote:
Based on that logic, the best you could say about O if he wins is that he got the better of Saban on that
EXACTLY, HE WOULD JUST SHOW THAT ON THAT PARTICULAR DAY, he was the better coach. He would have to follow it up with victories over Texas AM and Florida and Arkansa and a bowl victory to show he is a better overall coach than Saban.
if he does all that I think recruiting would really pick up to where we don't play second fiddle to Bama on the recruiting front. Plus we would have the better overall , along with Aranda , Ensiminger, Craig, and the rest of the staff (game day, game prep, spring and summer camps etc.) coach. Would be nice the day Saban is considered the 2nd tier coach in the SEC west with Orgeron top dog.
This post was edited on 11/5/16 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 11/5/16 at 3:34 pm to boxcar willie
quote:Oh. Gotcha. So you just base who's the better coach off of two thirds of a season.
He would have to follow it up with victories over Texas AM and Florida and Arkansa and a bowl victory to show he is a better overall coach than Saban.
You're getting closer, but not quite there yet.
This post was edited on 11/5/16 at 3:42 pm
Posted on 11/5/16 at 3:35 pm to CalTiger53
quote:
I said beat Saban in recruiting not Vandy
Hyperbole much?
Posted on 11/5/16 at 3:47 pm to abellsujr
quote:
Oh. Gotcha. So you just base who's the better coach off of a third of a year. You're getting closer, but not quite there yet.
well it would be 7 regular season games plus a bowl game or a SEC championship game plus the playoffs.
Picking up a team up off the ground and building them into champions in such order would show unbelievable coaching ability. It would be miraculous. Would you say he is a better coach than Saban if that miracle occurred? I would say that yes you would and so would everyone else who follows college football. It would be the greatest turnaround in college football history. No doubt movies would be made about the season called "The Season, the days of miracles".
They made that movie about Huge Freeze and Michael Oher and that was pretty inspiring. Just think what they could do with movie, "the miracle on the bayou"
Posted on 11/5/16 at 3:50 pm to boxcar willie
quote:
Would you say he is a better coach than Saban if that miracle occurred? I would say that yes you would and so would everyone else who follows college football.
Wow. You are dug in my man. Enjoy the game.
Posted on 11/5/16 at 3:55 pm to abellsujr
[quote]Interesting thought process. So one game decides who's the better coach for you? Do you think Hugh Freeze and Kevin Sumlin are better coaches than Nick Saban? y/quote]
better overall coaches including recruiting of course not . Recruiting is aBOUT 80% of being a college coach. The other 20% is just pure coaching up what you got to work with. Are they better at Saban at those aspects? Obviously not in the ballpark at recruiting, but at all the aspects. Yes Sumlin and especially Freeze ia much better coach (sans recruiting) then Saban, But recruiting is the deal so it can't just be separated out.
better overall coaches including recruiting of course not . Recruiting is aBOUT 80% of being a college coach. The other 20% is just pure coaching up what you got to work with. Are they better at Saban at those aspects? Obviously not in the ballpark at recruiting, but at all the aspects. Yes Sumlin and especially Freeze ia much better coach (sans recruiting) then Saban, But recruiting is the deal so it can't just be separated out.
Posted on 11/5/16 at 3:57 pm to abellsujr
quote:
Wow. You are dug in my man. Enjoy the game.
I agree, I have to laugh myself
, because it's not going to happen. Miracles happen in movies not in real life. 
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