- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Coaching Hire Philosophy, not just about LSU....but example is LSU
Posted on 11/15/16 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 11/15/16 at 2:53 pm
Why would any university, especially a major program hire someone as the HC without that individual having a major Defensive or Offensive philosophy (Orgeron).
I get that when you have a major program you will always have the threat coordinators leaving for other jobs (be it NFL, more money, HC somewhere, etc). But if you have a HC with a major Defensive or Offensive following / specialty(Fisher, Saban, Meyers, etc., hell you could even throw in an Aranda to a lesser degree), you really only have to worry about reloading / rebuilding one position on the coaching staff because the HC can more adapt and/or assist in his specialty.
I get a major program doesn't want to and really shouldn't take the gamble on a first time HC (Aranda), but I feel like at least you only have to worry about one side of the ball. You already have to overcome complete team turnover every 3-4 years with the players, do you really want to have to knock it out of the park with coordinators every 2-4 years also.
I'm not saying DON'T give Orgeron the job or DO give him the job. I'm just asking why would you want to add more uncertainty to the mix?
I really don't know what LSU (or any major program) should or shouldn't do, but can someone sell me on why they would be for giving an "Orgeron" the keys to a program, if you also are so worried about who the OC would be? If you say "we have to keep Aranda and he needs to make a homerun OC hire" to get the job, what happens in 2-4 years when the entire coaching staff and all the players have changed.
I wouldn't want to hinge my bet on every 2-4 years not only does he have to hit a home-run on one side of the ball, but he really has to do it on both. If you only make the HC hire based on keeping a top-flight DC and bringing in a top-flight OC this year, do you really respect or trust ANYONE to continue making that winning hire 2-3 times in a decade?
TL:DR...Screw me, what does it matter lets just roll some fricking dice and see what happens. What the worst that could happen?
I get that when you have a major program you will always have the threat coordinators leaving for other jobs (be it NFL, more money, HC somewhere, etc). But if you have a HC with a major Defensive or Offensive following / specialty(Fisher, Saban, Meyers, etc., hell you could even throw in an Aranda to a lesser degree), you really only have to worry about reloading / rebuilding one position on the coaching staff because the HC can more adapt and/or assist in his specialty.
I get a major program doesn't want to and really shouldn't take the gamble on a first time HC (Aranda), but I feel like at least you only have to worry about one side of the ball. You already have to overcome complete team turnover every 3-4 years with the players, do you really want to have to knock it out of the park with coordinators every 2-4 years also.
I'm not saying DON'T give Orgeron the job or DO give him the job. I'm just asking why would you want to add more uncertainty to the mix?
I really don't know what LSU (or any major program) should or shouldn't do, but can someone sell me on why they would be for giving an "Orgeron" the keys to a program, if you also are so worried about who the OC would be? If you say "we have to keep Aranda and he needs to make a homerun OC hire" to get the job, what happens in 2-4 years when the entire coaching staff and all the players have changed.
I wouldn't want to hinge my bet on every 2-4 years not only does he have to hit a home-run on one side of the ball, but he really has to do it on both. If you only make the HC hire based on keeping a top-flight DC and bringing in a top-flight OC this year, do you really respect or trust ANYONE to continue making that winning hire 2-3 times in a decade?
TL:DR...Screw me, what does it matter lets just roll some fricking dice and see what happens. What the worst that could happen?
9
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:00 pm to The Rodfather
quote:
but can someone sell me on why they would be for giving an "Orgeron" the keys to a program, if you also are so worried about who the OC would be?
They can't do it because, no matter what they say, it makes ZERO sense
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:03 pm to The Rodfather
That's a very intelligent post that makes a lot of sense. It's a waste though cause I'm not sure his supporters can read that long of a post.
If you're hiring a coach where you keep saying "if he can hire good coordinators," you should probably look elsewhere.
If you're hiring a coach where you keep saying "if he can hire good coordinators," you should probably look elsewhere.
This post was edited on 11/15/16 at 3:05 pm
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:05 pm to The Godfather
I use to be in the camp that, if he had HC experience elsewhere, then it doesn't matter if he has do defensive coordinator (read: understand how to fully run a defense) experience. But the uncertainty and potential of having to make top 10 hires at BOTH positions has made me change my mind.
This is not just LSU, I wouldn't feel comfortable at the hire at any major program. Look at Muschamp, he has a great record on defense but still can't seem to run a program. To risk that at the top position just doesn't make sense to me.
This is not just LSU, I wouldn't feel comfortable at the hire at any major program. Look at Muschamp, he has a great record on defense but still can't seem to run a program. To risk that at the top position just doesn't make sense to me.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:06 pm to The Rodfather
quote:
really don't know what LSU (or any major program) should or shouldn't do, but can someone sell me on why they would be for giving an "Orgeron" the keys to a program, if you also are so worried about who the OC would be?
Yep, you shouldn't have to worry about at least 1 side of the ball falling apart with teh wrong hire, but O you have to hope he can make great hires on both sides all the time.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:09 pm to apfour21
quote:
If you're hiring a coach where you keep saying "if he can hire good coordinators," you should probably look elsewhere.
I'm steadily leaning more and more this direction. Why gamble with a ~$138,000,000+ yearly revenue business? Would any business that has top 10 revenue in their field, not get the absolute best known CEO / President they could lure?
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:10 pm to The Rodfather
I agree. It just pisses me off that we didn't go ahead and get Jimbo last year.
You get to have Jimbo, Arranda and O all on the same staff and happut.
One of the greats on offense,defense and recruiting. What could've been guys.. what could've been
You get to have Jimbo, Arranda and O all on the same staff and happut.
One of the greats on offense,defense and recruiting. What could've been guys.. what could've been
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:10 pm to The Rodfather
quote:
why they would be for giving an "Orgeron" the keys to a program, if you also are so worried about who the OC would be?
I'll confuse you even more on this front. So, they want to keep O and have him hire an elite OC, right? Why are they so against hiring a HC who has already proven to be an elite OC?
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:12 pm to The Rodfather
quote:
Why would any university, especially a major program hire someone as the HC without that individual having a major Defensive or Offensive philosophy (Orgeron).
Ask Florida, Ohio State and Clemson. They have done it and the coaches are all still there except for Florida.
quote:
what happens in 2-4 years when the entire coaching staff and all the players have changed.
O will probably pick up the phone and call some of the best CO's available and say "Hey, the guy that we were paying well over a million bucks to run the defense is leaving. You want to come here and make a name for yourself with some of the best talent in the country? You will be able to run that side of the ball however you see fit."
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:13 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
You get to have Jimbo, Arranda and O all on the same staff and happut.
Les Miles hired Aranda. Aranda would not be at LSU right now if LSU had hired Jimbo last November.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:18 pm to ibleedprplngld
quote:
So, they want to keep O and have him hire an elite OC, right? Why are they so against hiring a HC who has already proven to be an elite OC?
I would rather have the OC, at least that way you only have the worry about losing the DC.
I hate that we (the vocal fans) keep saying, "who would O have to hire as OC to make you want to keep him?" We are at the point in LSU football history that we shouldn't be asking a question like that. We should be asking, who is the best most proven HC we can lure away NOW? It shouldn't matter if that HC isn't young enough to be here in 10 years. If we have to rely on making the absolute best DC and OC hires (with no room for error) to prop up the HC, we will have at least 2-3 new coaching staffs by that time anyway, probably including a new HC because that is a huge task to accomplish. I would akin going 6/6 with DC & OC in 10 years to having 3-4 undefeated seasons in the same time frame.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:24 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Les Miles hired Aranda. Aranda would not be at LSU right now if LSU had hired Jimbo last November.
You're right. I brain farted all over the place on that one. Although I'm not so sure Arranda wouldn't have still made it here. We'll never know
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:27 pm to Tiger Ree
quote:
Ask Florida, Ohio State and Clemson. They have done it and the coaches are all still there except for Florida.
Are we talking about he same Urban Meyer that has literally coached both sides of the ball at the college level, then went on to a mid-major college program or two with good success before moving on to a major program? Is that the same Urban Meyer were are talking about?
And Dabo Swinney is the exception that proves the rule. A couple of coaches that buck the trend, does not sell me on the risks. We could name quite a few that went the other direction.
quote:
O will probably pick up the phone and call some of the best CO's available and say "Hey, the guy that we were paying well over a million bucks to run the defense is leaving. You want to come here and make a name for yourself with some of the best talent in the country? You will be able to run that side of the ball however you see fit."
Doing this once or twice is not the cause for concern, having to do this ever 2-4 years is what has me with the not so confident feeling that this is the best thing for our (Or any major program for that matter) program.
A HC decision should not be made based on the coordinators he would need to hire. Especially if the basis for that argument is throw more money at it! Don't forget, the major programs set the trend. More and more schools will start to pay more and it only becomes more expensive for us. In not too long that "over a million bucks" isn't as enticing and we the fans will have to pay more to offset this.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:39 pm to The Rodfather
Specifically for LSU, stick with the philosophy that has resulted in LSU's most successful, championship period in school history:
Hire a coach from a major conference that has had sustained success versus a relatively high level of competition - Saban from State, and Miles for OSU.
Fisher fits that criteria perfectly; my biggest concern is that he still has the fire to win another championship. Coaches with multiple championships is very rare.
Fedora fits that criteria. Herman doesn't, but seems like the most qualified candidate to take a chance on.
Hire a coach from a major conference that has had sustained success versus a relatively high level of competition - Saban from State, and Miles for OSU.
Fisher fits that criteria perfectly; my biggest concern is that he still has the fire to win another championship. Coaches with multiple championships is very rare.
Fedora fits that criteria. Herman doesn't, but seems like the most qualified candidate to take a chance on.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:48 pm to The Rodfather
Just wanted to throw this out there also. I posted it elsewhere but felt that it related to this.
quote:
I'm not trolling. Can anyone give one example of a coach that had prior HC experience that had a winning record of 0.286 or even 0.417, that was a success at their next stop? Objectively with the "success" also, I'm not even going to ask for >0.750 or >0.800, just what you would deem a success for your school.
Remember, we are not talking about just any program, we are talking about YOUR program, the one that felt 0.770 (or 0.709 2012 - fired) was not successful enough to keep. Orgeron would have to win the next 2 games this year, then go on a run averaging 11 wins with 2 losses per year for the next 8 years to get to 0.714, Miles career record is currently 0.719. Please keep all that in mind when thinking about what constitutes "success" for you and your program.
Posted on 11/15/16 at 3:50 pm to The Rodfather
Ask the Baltimore Ravens. They hired a special teams coach and he won a SB
Just because someone was a coordinator doesn't mean that side of the ball is always going to be good Look at Bob Stoops and Charlie Strong's defense or Mcelwain's O
Just because someone was a coordinator doesn't mean that side of the ball is always going to be good Look at Bob Stoops and Charlie Strong's defense or Mcelwain's O
Posted on 11/15/16 at 4:10 pm to Midtiger farm
quote:
Ask the Baltimore Ravens. They hired a special teams coach and he won a SB
While this is a good example of it working out. Unlike college which can only have 9 "coaches" on staff to recruit and "coach on the field", the NFL has not rules restricting (salary or number) therefor the risk of home-run hires isn't quite the same. This coupled with the fact that (yes, we all know the average time in the NFL is 3.5 years) there is no time that can pass for NFL players to no longer be eligible, they are handpicked for their team, and they are a lot less "raw talent" then the high schoolers a college coach is working with.
quote:
Just because someone was a coordinator doesn't mean that side of the ball is always going to be good Look at Bob Stoops and Charlie Strong's defense or Mcelwain's O
You are correct, it doesn't guarantee anything, but it gives you much much better odds, with fewer variables.
Page 1 of 1
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News