re: Art Briles vs. Kendall Briles...who would you take?

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and your arguments are not great.

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Im still waiting on you to tell me about all that wrong information i have. Still no links? Damn. Thought you might have had something useful to add for once. Oh well. Carry on.

Bring in Art as offensive consultant and hire Kendall as OC. LSU will beat the brakes off Bama with that staff. Aranda will do his part. Let Orgeron motivate. Art can be in the background helping out his son.

So... I read your posts over the past 8 pages and I even read a couple of the articles you posted.



Issue #1: The articles you posted discuss the failure of Baylor as an institution. This is not a Briles issue.

A) The AP article talks about how the conduct code at the University silenced victims. And women who reported were often subjected to punishment for drinking. While that's BS, that's not on Briles.

B) In the PBS article, there are two things worth citing:

#1. "Baylor fired football coach Art Briles in May. In at least one case, according to the regents, Briles knew about an alleged incident and did not alert police, the school’s judicial affairs staff or the Title IX office responsible for reacting to such cases."

#2. "Baylor’s former Title IX coordinator, Patty Crawford, resigned in October and alleged that university officials hindered her efforts to address what she said was a sexual assault issue for the whole campus, not just football players, The Wall Street Journal reported."

C) Couldn't read the WSJ article, but it's cited in the PBS article as noted in #2.

Regarding the PBS article, point #2: Per Patty Crawford, this was a campus wide problem with hundreds of potential victims, and the involvement of football players was only a part. Again, not a Briles issue; it's a school issue.

I'll address point #1-- that he was fired, that he knew of 1 complaint & didn't report it up the chain at school or to authorities-- in context with "Issue 2" below.



Issue #2: Your primary argument is that Briles was required by law to report the one instance he knew about. I will quote a few snippets from your numerous rants over the past few pages that sum up your primary argument. According to you...

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Start of your quotes:

"It IS most definitely on the coach to report it. If you would have read the fact finding report you would know this."

"It's his job to report it to police. That's the rules. No one is asking him to kick the guy off the team or say he is guilty. He AND his staff should've reported it to the proper authorities and they didnt. Simple as that."

"If the VICTIM makes an allegation to any authority figure on campus it is that person's responsibility to report it to the proper outlets. That was not done. End of story."

"The rub is he was too dumb (best case scenario) to report the misconduct to the proper outlets."

"art briles has a LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY to report those claims. He did not."

"2) there was evidence in at least one of the cases where he had the information and did nothing with it. I already posted that link and quoted it.
3)He was REQUIRED (for the 100th time) to report these incidents if he knew about them. He did not do that."

End of your quotes... and I actually deleted some for brevity since you kept repeating this ad nauseum to anyone whose opinion wasn't your own.
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In response, here's a link for you from a Title IX related site:
knowyourix

I'll quote the relevant excerpts...

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Teachers or counselors may be good people to talk to about violence or harassment you’ve experienced or are experiencing. If you are under age 18, though, some of these people may be required by mandatory reporting laws to disclose certain kinds of abuse to a government agency, such as law enforcement, child protective services, or a child abuse reporting hotline.

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If you are 18 or older and no longer have a legal guardian, child abuse mandatory reporting laws do not apply to you. However, a few states have adopted mandatory police referral laws that require some schools to turn over rape cases to law enforcement, regardless of the victim’s age.

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If I were trying to be a dick, I would just leave that last sentence off. But I'll leave it on there so you can try to salvage your argument. Feel free to enlighten me if Texas has such laws for victims 18 or older. And feel free to let me know if the girl was 18 or not. Because most of your rhetoric hinges on the point that Briles legally had to report this when there is a strong likelihood that's not true. Furthermore, there is verbiage on other victim support sites that specifically state that the victim's wishes need to be honored in these matters.

I can tell you from my previous posts on this topic that the girl said Briles was supportive of her and encouraged her to report it to the police but she didn't want to. So, if she's 18, that's her right.

Also, you should know the girl first reported it to her own coach. Then the AD was made aware (presumably by her coach). Then, if I'm not mistaken, the girl's coach approached Briles with the info, then the girl met with Briles who encouraged her to step forward. So, importantly, the AD-- Briles' boss-- was already notified. And if the girl's coach is already notifying people (the AD), shouldn't it have been on that coach to continue with any additional internal reporting to Title IX or the judicial dept. Or even Briles' boss, the AD. It seems the only reason Briles was notified at all was as a courtesy from one coach to another before his players were reported, but I don't think that was even necessary. And if they were looking for Briles' approval, they got it. Briles met the girl, encouraged her and even followed up with the girl's coach at a later time to inquire after her. What more could he do if the girl didn't want to press charges without disrespecting her wishes? What did he fail to do?

It's actually a little ironic that Baylor tried to pin the internal reporting part on Briles since Title IX was woefully implemented there... again, something that's an issue with the AD, the President and other administrative leadership, but not on Briles. Briles can only follow what's in place.

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I personally think Briles became the scapegoat for the university

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this thread is the most I have ever spent thinking about or reading about Art Briles...and it appears he is getting a raw deal.

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Wow.
You put a lot into that.

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Regrettably so.

I hadn't paid much attention to him either till this past week, and like you, I'm beginning to strongly think he was a scapegoat... especially since Baylor settled with him for $20M when he sued them after being fired. (I also think that $20M payday and being 61 yrs old is probably going to mean he won't even bother coming here.)

It's just surprising to me how many small-minded people are running around posting bullshite like this, ready to judge and condemn the man-- as if they're some sort of moral authority-- when they don't know a damn thing. I admit I don't know... but from what I've seen, I still haven't seen anything that makes him seem all that guilty of anything.

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every coach recruiting against will make sure momma knows we hired a guy that covers up rape.

and when momma says her son ain't playing for a rape apologist, then her son ain't coming to LSU.

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This is the problem. Would love to have him but we will never hear the end of the rape stuff. Little Nicky would negative recruit the shite out of us. Mom's all over would be against sending their son here.

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It's just surprising to me how many small-minded people are running around posting bullshite like this, ready to judge and condemn the man-- as if they're some sort of moral authority-- when they don't know a damn thing. I admit I don't know... but from what I've seen, I still haven't seen anything that makes him seem all that guilty of anything.

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Many Baylor fans will agree with you. Briles was the fall guy for the university lack of investment into a Title IX department. We gave up trying to explain this to the media and other outsiders. You can only take being called a rape enabler so many times before just not caring anymore.

Art

I was just editing my own post for a couple of typos and points I thought were unclear in hindsight.

When I was in the Navy, one of the rules that bothered me was that if the captain was asleep and the idiot who was officer of the deck ran aground, the captain was responsible. It does, I guess, make sure the captain takes his command and training responsibilities seriously, but every command invariably has a few idiots and I'm sure more than one great officer has been hosed by such people... In this case, Briles appears to definitely have known about one case, and as far as I can tell, he did the right things. In a couple of other publicized cases, it appears he may not have known (though that should be questioned). If he didn't know, it reminds me of a captain getting hosed because of someone else's negligence.

What's worse, though, is there's an impresssion from all that I've seen that these institutional problems at Baylor were ongoing for some time before Briles showed up. It seems partly a matter of Baylor being a private, Baptist university with different behevioral rules enforced than at other colleges... And a lot of it seems to go to the top (president, vice presidents, maybe deans and possibly the AD). And if that's the case... and if he did only know about one instance directly (for which he acted reasonably), I can't help but think his biggest mistake was going to work there. But how was he to know that ahead of time?

Even in the part of the summary you just posted, I see the school being at fault, not Briles so much. An assistant or two of his looks guilty as well. If I'm judging Briles directly, this matters to me.

Regarding the Title IX parts you posted, this looks similar to the articles/documents I was reading earlier. I read it as meaning he had an obligation to report it to the Title IX office and judicial affairs as well. My main objection to pinning him with this is that the girl reported it to her coach. Her coach seems to have gone through some step to notify the AD... then Coach Briles. But as the confidante to the victim, it seems her coach is the one who should have reported it. Or the AD, since he was notified too. Briles is more peripheral to the girl's well being than either of the other two.

Beyond internal reporting, though, it's worth mentioning again it doesn't appear to be his place to report it to the police without the girl's permission. I was at work when I made my first reply, but the couple of websites about victim's rights I read suggest you need to respect the victim's rights of if/how the want to report such incidents... I edited my post above to indicate this without citing the sources directly, but it'll be too lengthy to look those up again and post here.

I appreciate the courtesy in your response to my post. But I have to say, most of the people who are anti-Briles appear to be running with a sound bite, and don't really know anything beyond it. Neither of us knows much more. Yet people hear partial facts and are quick to condemn him. And the more I read, the less I see which makes me think Briles should be condemned. So every unfair (imo) negative post I see about him makes me more pro-Briles.

*******bangs gavel********

Order order

In the case of Arthur Briles vs. Baylor U the court finds the defendant

NOT GUILTY

But rather made to be a scapegoat as epbart eloquently outlined in his exposure of the university's systemic corruption prior to Briles' arrival in Waco.

Add to that the fact that he seemingly didn't do anything wrong.




To answer your question - as was also stated, a 61 y/o man who got a $20M settlement for hitting the bricks won't be coming to LSU to take a job as an OC.

Are you a cop? A security guard? Some other area of law enforcement?

Between the time you've spent on this board crucifying Briles and Kiffin in hopes that LSU hires neither you clearly have some sort of criminal justice thing going on.