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Message
re: A balanced discussion about Mel Tucker
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:06 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:06 pm to Draconian Sanctions
No—No
See both those No’s are balanced
See both those No’s are balanced
0
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:08 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Before you say that was Kirby keep in mind people said the exact same thing about Kirby when he was at Bama).
That is actually not true whatsoever.
Kirby was very much known as a respected defensive coach on his own right.
Tucker when in full control has looked bad on defense. He has even been fired. And his defenses haven't been good as a head coach either.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:10 pm to Draconian Sanctions
I don’t know what you been watching but his defense is horrible
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:15 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
It would be a risk
I'm not against Tucker. I'm against LSU taking a risk. Tucker needs more time to prove he can sustain success longer than 1 good year. And that 1 good year hasn't even included the best teams on the schedule yet.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:16 pm to koLSU86
quote:
personally feel like Billy Napier is riskiest hire of them all. I don’t get the love for the guy. He hasn’t really done anything that impressive and he’s being touted as the next great coach.
Let's be honest a Head Coach is only as good as the Cordinators he brings in, even Saban.
I would think that any perspective Coach would provide a list of Assistants that he has lined up.
If Napier would bring in Rob Sale, we would be so far ahead of where we are right now.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:16 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
I'm against LSU taking a risk.
Every coach is a risk except a handful. We know enough to know that if we can get one of those guys we’re going to pull the trigger.
This is more about what you do once you’re in that next tier.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:17 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
It would be a risk, but to act like he would be a HORRIBLE hire is, I think, unfair.
That fair. My issue with Tucker is he at Colorado 2 years and jumped ship with no success. This is his first success this season and while he is touted a great defensive coach. This Michigan State defense is terrible. Also we don't know about recruiting. Yeah he went out and used Juco and more so the Portal and totally rebuilt Michigan State's roster. I understand that is what he had to do and he did a great job, but that is not how you win in the SEC at LSU. IMO there just isn't enough of a track record for me to get behind him as a candidate. That being said if he is the hire I will get behind him and support him 100% until he gives me a reason not to. Just like with Orgeron, he wasn't my choice but when he was hired I supported him
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:18 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
Also we don't know about recruiting.
His reputation as a recruiter is excellent
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:19 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
This is more about what you do once you’re in that next tier.
In that case I think I want Napier
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:19 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
It would be a risk, but to act like he would be a HORRIBLE hire is, I think, unfair.
we can do better is the point
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:20 pm to richbad
Kirby Smart won the Broyles award in his 2nd season at Alabama.
Alabama lost to Clemson first year under Pruitt. However, I also believe Pruitt is a better defensive coach than Tucker. I don't believe Alabama's defense has been the same since both of these coordinators left.
Kirby has shown at Georgia that he absolutely runs his defense there. They only get better every single year. Kirby just brought Tucker in, so he could give him his first promotion and still be able to be in charge. Of course I could be wrong, but I believe Kirby is probably the best defensive coach in all of college football.
Alabama lost to Clemson first year under Pruitt. However, I also believe Pruitt is a better defensive coach than Tucker. I don't believe Alabama's defense has been the same since both of these coordinators left.
Kirby has shown at Georgia that he absolutely runs his defense there. They only get better every single year. Kirby just brought Tucker in, so he could give him his first promotion and still be able to be in charge. Of course I could be wrong, but I believe Kirby is probably the best defensive coach in all of college football.
This post was edited on 11/9/21 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:23 pm to Adam39
Spot on.
Kirby is at the top of his game right now.
Kirby is at the top of his game right now.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:24 pm to bopper50
quote:
Let's be honest a Head Coach is only as good as the Cordinators he brings in, even Saban.
While that has some truth to it, there are head coaches that provide consistency on one side of the ball or the other. Napier would likely push his offensive philosophy since that is his supposed area of expertise, and from what I've seen, it's not that impressive. That kind of worries me. I'd rather have a guy that has proven they can provide some type of consistency on one side of the ball or the other and I'm just not sold that he can do that.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:25 pm to Draconian Sanctions
My God almighty. Your "balanced" discussion on Mel Tucker manages to avoid all facts. Here they are, and they are indisputable:
2008 - DC of Cleveland Browns - bottom ten in the league in total defense (7th worst)
2009 - DC of Jacksonville Jaguars - bottom ten in the league in total defense (10th worst)
2010 - DC of Jacksonville Jaguars - bottom ten in the league in total defense (5th worst)
2011 - DC of Jacksonville Jaguars- top ten in the league in total defense (6th best)
2012 - DC of Jacksonville Jaguars - bottom ten in the league in total defense (3rd worst)
2013 - DC of Chicago Bears - bottom ten in the league in total defense (3rd worst)
2014 - DC of the Chicago Bears - bottom ten in the league in total defense. (3rd worst)
COLORADO
Tucker was the head coach of the Buffalos in 2019. He replaced Mike MacIntyre, who went 5-7 in 2017 and 2018. In his lone season as head coach, Tucker also finished 5-7. The contention that Tucker "turned around" Colorado is a total myth. He had the same losing record as his predecessor. The defensive statistics reflect Tucker's failure:
2018 Colorado Defense (before Tucker): 52nd total defense, 70th scoring defense
2019 Colorado Defense (with Tucker): 104th total defense, 97th scoring defense.
Obviously, the Colorado defense declined significantly under Tucker's regime.
MSU
Tucker has done no better at MSU. In his first season, he tallied an atrocious 2-5 record. Again, the statistics are unflattering:
2019 MSU Defense (before Tucker): 19th total defense, 39th scoring defense
2020 MSU Defense (with Tucker): 54th total defense, 100th scoring defense
When Tucker took over, the MSU defense tumbled in the rankings.
And guess what. His MSU defense is even worse this year. It's ranked 113th in total defense: LINK And those stats will get worse after Tucker is decimated by OSU.
So in sum, here is the "balanced" truth about Tucker: he has never once in his career had sustained success in a position where he was in charge. His record is INDISPUTABLY littered with failures and mediocrity. He is having a single outlier year. You don't hire someone for a top job because of a single outlier year. It's high risk and, frankly, criminally moronic, especially when there are more established candidates available with better track records.
Let's put this simply. Tucker is like a student who had consistent gotten C's and D's, along with a few F's. He now gets one partial A-/B+ and his supporters want to annoint him valedictorian.
Those are the facts. There is no escaping them. Tucker would be a terrible hire, given the statute of the program.
2008 - DC of Cleveland Browns - bottom ten in the league in total defense (7th worst)
2009 - DC of Jacksonville Jaguars - bottom ten in the league in total defense (10th worst)
2010 - DC of Jacksonville Jaguars - bottom ten in the league in total defense (5th worst)
2011 - DC of Jacksonville Jaguars- top ten in the league in total defense (6th best)
2012 - DC of Jacksonville Jaguars - bottom ten in the league in total defense (3rd worst)
2013 - DC of Chicago Bears - bottom ten in the league in total defense (3rd worst)
2014 - DC of the Chicago Bears - bottom ten in the league in total defense. (3rd worst)
COLORADO
Tucker was the head coach of the Buffalos in 2019. He replaced Mike MacIntyre, who went 5-7 in 2017 and 2018. In his lone season as head coach, Tucker also finished 5-7. The contention that Tucker "turned around" Colorado is a total myth. He had the same losing record as his predecessor. The defensive statistics reflect Tucker's failure:
2018 Colorado Defense (before Tucker): 52nd total defense, 70th scoring defense
2019 Colorado Defense (with Tucker): 104th total defense, 97th scoring defense.
Obviously, the Colorado defense declined significantly under Tucker's regime.
MSU
Tucker has done no better at MSU. In his first season, he tallied an atrocious 2-5 record. Again, the statistics are unflattering:
2019 MSU Defense (before Tucker): 19th total defense, 39th scoring defense
2020 MSU Defense (with Tucker): 54th total defense, 100th scoring defense
When Tucker took over, the MSU defense tumbled in the rankings.
And guess what. His MSU defense is even worse this year. It's ranked 113th in total defense: LINK And those stats will get worse after Tucker is decimated by OSU.
So in sum, here is the "balanced" truth about Tucker: he has never once in his career had sustained success in a position where he was in charge. His record is INDISPUTABLY littered with failures and mediocrity. He is having a single outlier year. You don't hire someone for a top job because of a single outlier year. It's high risk and, frankly, criminally moronic, especially when there are more established candidates available with better track records.
Let's put this simply. Tucker is like a student who had consistent gotten C's and D's, along with a few F's. He now gets one partial A-/B+ and his supporters want to annoint him valedictorian.
Those are the facts. There is no escaping them. Tucker would be a terrible hire, given the statute of the program.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:26 pm to bopper50
quote:
Outstanding recruiter because he got guys from the portal ?
The portal is a part of recruiting now.
This season has pushed me more and more towards recruiting centric coaches, just look at the trajectories of Georgia and Florida.
Tucker would recruit at an extremely high level and I get the IMPRESSION that he runs a tight ship. There is risk obviously. But if we get to the Tucker/Aranda/Napier tier, just give me the guy that I know will recruit his balls off.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:30 pm to DBG
quote:
The portal is a part of recruiting now.
That is true. Last season Riley had 16 HS recruits signed and 8 transfers added.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:30 pm to IowaCityTigerFan
Then it will be less than a top 3 coach
Saban Day and whoever is 3rd ain’t coming
Don’t want jimbo or Riley
Want the highest ceiling not the highest floor
Seen jimbo and Riley ceiling and it’s not that high
Saban Day and whoever is 3rd ain’t coming
Don’t want jimbo or Riley
Want the highest ceiling not the highest floor
Seen jimbo and Riley ceiling and it’s not that high
This post was edited on 11/9/21 at 5:32 pm
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:36 pm to DmitriKaramazov
Ouch.
Let Tucker learn on the job somewhere else!
Let Tucker learn on the job somewhere else!
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:42 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
A balanced discussion about Mel Tucker
The balance is not no, but hell no! He will not be offered the LSU head coaching job. There is no need to say anything more regarding Mel Tucker.
Posted on 11/9/21 at 5:43 pm to DmitriKaramazov
quote:
2008 - DC of Cleveland Browns - bottom ten in the league in total defense (7th worst)
2009 - DC of Jacksonville Jaguars - bottom ten in the league in total defense (10th worst)
2010 - DC of Jacksonville Jaguars - bottom ten in the league in total defense (5th worst)
2011 - DC of Jacksonville Jaguars- top ten in the league in total defense (6th best)
2012 - DC of Jacksonville Jaguars - bottom ten in the league in total defense (3rd worst)
2013 - DC of Chicago Bears - bottom ten in the league in total defense (3rd worst)
2014 - DC of the Chicago Bears - bottom ten in the league in total defense. (3rd worst)
This is all irrelevant. Nobody cares. But, if you want to include his NFL DC stats but omit his college DC stats, that’s being disingenuous. If you want to chalk up college success to Saban and Smart, fine. Blame his HC and GM for poor NFL defenses.
His Colorado stint was too short to make any sweeping judgements. And Colorado is a dead end job.
So far at MSU, he has his roster punching above it’s weight class. Per 247 MSU has the 7th most talented roster in the Big 10. He also has the 3rd ranked 2022 class in the Big 10 committed. The last full Dantonio class was 7th. MSU is CLEARLY on the upswing.
It’s about looking at the process and the projection. If you ONLY focus on past results, there are only like 3 guys that will satisfy.
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