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re: Wheel of Time TV, Full Trailer Oct 27, show premieres Nov 19
Posted on 11/10/21 at 3:18 pm to Sneaky__Sally
Posted on 11/10/21 at 3:18 pm to Sneaky__Sally
its purely political.
They could not have a total dichotomy between men and women. It does not fit into their world view.
I'm pretty pissed off about it. They just could not help themselves inject their retarded wokeness into this.
They could not have a total dichotomy between men and women. It does not fit into their world view.
I'm pretty pissed off about it. They just could not help themselves inject their retarded wokeness into this.
1
Posted on 11/10/21 at 3:24 pm to Fun Bunch
Sure, but why focus on it and let it ruin a show you've been hoping would get made for so long.
It was never going to be perfect, don't let the kind of imperfection this is impact your enjoyment of the rest of the story.
This question and answer was clearly designed specifically for Rafe to say that this show does have trans representation - I'll wait and see how that comes across over the course of the season and if it ends making a big difference or not.
If we have a major character who is now searching through the meaning of gender and that becomes a major and intrusive narrative focus, I'll be upset - but I just don't think it will be that invasive given the amount of other shite they have to do in the series.
It was never going to be perfect, don't let the kind of imperfection this is impact your enjoyment of the rest of the story.
This question and answer was clearly designed specifically for Rafe to say that this show does have trans representation - I'll wait and see how that comes across over the course of the season and if it ends making a big difference or not.
If we have a major character who is now searching through the meaning of gender and that becomes a major and intrusive narrative focus, I'll be upset - but I just don't think it will be that invasive given the amount of other shite they have to do in the series.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 3:45 pm to Sneaky__Sally
I could go either way on this. The idea that souls can be reborn into male or female bodies is fine on its own. This essentially happens with the forsaken at points in the books.
The big red flag though is that this talking point happening this early probably signals something in the show that is going to be focused on fairly early and I cannot think of anything this could be that wouldnt be fairly disruptive and unnecessary to the short allotment of time we have to actually develop the story itself.
The big red flag though is that this talking point happening this early probably signals something in the show that is going to be focused on fairly early and I cannot think of anything this could be that wouldnt be fairly disruptive and unnecessary to the short allotment of time we have to actually develop the story itself.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 3:53 pm to Raistlins Apprentice
quote:
I could go either way on this. The idea that souls can be reborn into male or female bodies is fine on its own. This essentially happens with the forsaken at points in the books.
The big red flag though is that this talking point happening this early probably signals something in the show that is going to be focused on fairly early and I cannot think of anything this could be that wouldnt be fairly disruptive and unnecessary to the short allotment of time we have to actually develop the story itself.
I agree in a way, I just can't really think of where this would get inserted so heavily.
My hope is just that it is being insert for the whole initial who is the dragon discussion and we see some representation. I could almost see something like there being men who channel Saidar who aren't allowed in the White Tower and that they are maybe a part of the Kin.
While I don't love that, as long as it is folded into a story like that I can live with it and it won't impact my enjoyment of the story too much.
Buy ya, I agree - if there is some major time or narrative focus shifted to some sort of major gender fluidity / trans dynamic storyline or theme, it will be disruptive and take focus away from the actual Wheel of Time story.
Or if we have a major focus in every society of how they handle the trans channelers or whatever it could also become distracting.
This post was edited on 11/10/21 at 3:55 pm
Posted on 11/10/21 at 5:18 pm to Sneaky__Sally
It may be that there is only "one power", not halved and distinct by gender, and the taint is just an interference experienced only by cisgendered males.
Oh the fun exploring the odd variations in how the taint manifests amongst the broad spectrum of gender!
Oh the fun exploring the odd variations in how the taint manifests amongst the broad spectrum of gender!
Posted on 11/10/21 at 5:31 pm to luvdoc
maybe that's why Logain will be more featured.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:43 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
This triggers me to a great degree
Yeah, I read this and got quite mad. I understand it's his job to adapt it, but to make changes and claim that's what the author would have done if they were alive is quite infuriating.
Posted on 11/10/21 at 9:47 pm to oauron
He would have totally been down with our insane politics and changed his entire system of magic!
Posted on 11/10/21 at 10:18 pm to Raistlins Apprentice
quote:
Rand/Min is pretty developed from the Rand side at least.
Fair enough. But there are other sudden relationships that pop out of nowhere too, like Naneve and Lan.
Posted on 11/11/21 at 6:19 am to oauron
quote:
quote:
This triggers me to a great degree
Yeah, I read this and got quite mad. I understand it's his job to adapt it, but to make changes and claim that's what the author would have done if they were alive is quite infuriating.
Harriet is heavily involved though, so I don't know if we can just blame this solely on the showrunner.
At least we definitely know what the "big change that will be divisive among fans" Sanderson was talking about now
This post was edited on 11/11/21 at 6:21 am
Posted on 11/11/21 at 7:40 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
insane politics and changed his entire system of magic!
I can't believe more people aren't mad about this - the dynamic between the sexes, the yin/yang of saidar vs saidin etc is a fundamental part of the whole freaking story.
Maybe I'm wrong (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am) but the whole forsaken getting born into a body of the opposite sex wasn't some random accident, it was purposeful punishment from the Dark One wasn't it? To say that oh, its ok if they make female dragons, because its all just random and gender doesn't matter is complete horseshite.
Posted on 11/11/21 at 8:43 am to Fun Bunch
snark [on] off
Y'all just need to chill out.
You need to understand that these improvements developed organically during the adaptation from the written word, a natural and necessary consequence when story-telling-on-screen.
Frankly, this seems like a logical and relatively minor change. There are things that MUST be changed for screen. That's just the way it works!
/Sn
I unfortunately predict that the final version will be such a twisted preachy leftist homo screed that it will offend and run off fans of the original, and fail to secure interest from newcomers.
We will ultimately be subjected to multiple write ups explaining why this masterpiece failed to attract viewers: the expected audience turned out to be a bunch of bigots. This story is going to be too "ahead of its time ", or perhaps too "good/highbrow/authentic/etc" for the unwashed masses.
And the only way we will be allowed to relay our displeasure will be by not watching, and on this site.
My early attempts to have eager and excited discussions about the series at the Tor (publisher) website and a few other nerd sites I frequent, including critical reviews of early casting, etc., and what it might mean regarding the probable underlying themes of race and sexuality, and especially if expressing dissatisfaction with those expectations, were quickly censored.
No one is going to be allowed to publicly express dissatisfaction, and like a bad economic report during a democratic administration, the viewership numbers will be "unexpectedly lower than forcast"
Y'all just need to chill out.
You need to understand that these improvements developed organically during the adaptation from the written word, a natural and necessary consequence when story-telling-on-screen.
Frankly, this seems like a logical and relatively minor change. There are things that MUST be changed for screen. That's just the way it works!
/Sn
I unfortunately predict that the final version will be such a twisted preachy leftist homo screed that it will offend and run off fans of the original, and fail to secure interest from newcomers.
We will ultimately be subjected to multiple write ups explaining why this masterpiece failed to attract viewers: the expected audience turned out to be a bunch of bigots. This story is going to be too "ahead of its time ", or perhaps too "good/highbrow/authentic/etc" for the unwashed masses.
And the only way we will be allowed to relay our displeasure will be by not watching, and on this site.
My early attempts to have eager and excited discussions about the series at the Tor (publisher) website and a few other nerd sites I frequent, including critical reviews of early casting, etc., and what it might mean regarding the probable underlying themes of race and sexuality, and especially if expressing dissatisfaction with those expectations, were quickly censored.
No one is going to be allowed to publicly express dissatisfaction, and like a bad economic report during a democratic administration, the viewership numbers will be "unexpectedly lower than forcast"
This post was edited on 11/11/21 at 9:12 am
Posted on 11/11/21 at 9:10 am to nopants
quote:
Maybe I'm wrong (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am) but the whole forsaken getting born into a body of the opposite sex wasn't some random accident, it was purposeful punishment from the Dark One wasn't it?
Yes, that is how it was treated in the book - and you can see how the sole representation of a trans character as only the result of dark one punishment / interference was probably a no-go from Amazon in the current social climate as it would generate tons of negative press.
It also really doesn't have to change much of anything regarding the system of magic depending on how it presents in the show. We don't even know how it is going to be represented yet, I just don't see the reason for a full meltdown at this point unless you just like to assume worse case scenario for any change.
This post was edited on 11/11/21 at 9:13 am
Posted on 11/11/21 at 9:19 am to Sneaky__Sally
There's a logical reason for the corruption/taint: it is tied to Saidin.
Here, what is it tied to? Penises?
Do trans-men (aka Women) get the taint/corruption because in the eyes of someone like Rafe, they ARE men?
Is the corruption tied to your feelings on your gender? Or biological sex?
See what Rafe's insanity has led the rabbit hole down to? Its a stupid unneccessary change
Here, what is it tied to? Penises?
Do trans-men (aka Women) get the taint/corruption because in the eyes of someone like Rafe, they ARE men?
Is the corruption tied to your feelings on your gender? Or biological sex?
See what Rafe's insanity has led the rabbit hole down to? Its a stupid unneccessary change
Posted on 11/11/21 at 9:23 am to Fun Bunch
I still just read it as a male soul channels saidin and a female soul channels saidar regardless of their body based on this comment.
To me, the above indicates that it is likely going to be treated in the same way the book already treated a male soul born into a female body and vice versa.
quote:
We’re approaching it as you are a soul and you move through different bodies through whatever life that you’re in
To me, the above indicates that it is likely going to be treated in the same way the book already treated a male soul born into a female body and vice versa.
This post was edited on 11/11/21 at 9:39 am
Posted on 11/11/21 at 9:44 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
and you can see how the sole representation of a trans character as only the result of dark one punishment / interference was probably a no-go from Amazon in the current social climate as it would generate tons of negative press
Can I see it? yes.
Do I agree with them doing it? No, I think its cowardice. Which is extremely ironic given how we are always told how BRAVE the SJWs are for daring to parrot the woke agenda that is being blasted at max volume on virtually every form of media.
quote:
It also really doesn't have to change much of anything regarding the system of magic depending on how it presents in the show.
Please explain this one. The entire foundation of the magic system / political organization was that of a clear split of power between the sexes - also it was made clear that both of them working TOGETHER is much more powerful than either side alone. (which seems like one hell of a good message to be shown these days)
quote:
I just don't see the reason for a full meltdown at this point
Who is melting down? We're discussing things on a discussion board. I've not seen anyone going on a huge rant cursing and throwing things. Some of us are concerned that a show we are looking forward to may end up bastardizing the source material to the point where it makes it not enjoyable to watch. I very much hope that I'm wrong, as it'd be nice to have a new AAA fantasy show that was worth a damn.
Posted on 11/11/21 at 10:02 am to Sneaky__Sally
I do not believe that showrunners believe there Should Be such a thing as a Male or Female soul. A soul is a soul is a soul and is sometimes born into a body with the penis and sometimes not. And even then, the anatomy does not reflect any intrinsic difference, neither regarding one's magical type nor one's sexual/gender preference.
But this is speculation
But this is speculation
Posted on 11/11/21 at 10:18 am to nopants
quote:
Who is melting down? We're discussing things on a discussion board. I've not seen anyone going on a huge rant cursing and throwing things. Some of us are concerned that a show we are looking forward to may end up bastardizing the source material to the point where it makes it not enjoyable to watch. I very much hope that I'm wrong, as it'd be nice to have a new AAA fantasy show that was worth a damn.
lots of people on the internet, it was just a comment about how I feel - not directed at anyone in here.
quote:
Please explain this one. The entire foundation of the magic system / political organization was that of a clear split of power between the sexes - also it was made clear that both of them working TOGETHER is much more powerful than either side alone. (which seems like one hell of a good message to be shown these days)
Saidar and Saidin can still be separated and work in conjunction with one another based on the sex of the soul - this was how the situation was handled in the book.
Posted on 11/11/21 at 2:16 pm to Sneaky__Sally
To move off this discussion briefly at least, what are people's thoughts on the Dannil(sp?) theory?
To recap: in the trailer, Moiraine is heard saying it will be "one of the five of you," but apparently people have been able to tell that this line is dubbed, and her lips are actually saying four instead of five.
Some people have theorized that a fourth boy will be briefly going along with them and then getting killed off, perhaps establishing stakes early on in the story. Also, this ties into Jordan's original intent as even the cover artwork of book 1 indicates a fourth boy.
Pretty interesting theory that would also negate alot of the doom over that comment.
Alas, I dont actually buy the theory. I think the more simple explanation is Moiraine's referring to the three boys and Egwene. It never made sense to refer to "five" because Nynaeve doesnt go with them until later.
But if you want to cling to hope its there at least for now.
To recap: in the trailer, Moiraine is heard saying it will be "one of the five of you," but apparently people have been able to tell that this line is dubbed, and her lips are actually saying four instead of five.
Some people have theorized that a fourth boy will be briefly going along with them and then getting killed off, perhaps establishing stakes early on in the story. Also, this ties into Jordan's original intent as even the cover artwork of book 1 indicates a fourth boy.
Pretty interesting theory that would also negate alot of the doom over that comment.
Alas, I dont actually buy the theory. I think the more simple explanation is Moiraine's referring to the three boys and Egwene. It never made sense to refer to "five" because Nynaeve doesnt go with them until later.
But if you want to cling to hope its there at least for now.
Posted on 11/11/21 at 2:58 pm to Raistlins Apprentice
Ya it is egwene I'm pretty sure.
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