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Unmasked Antifa?Posted by TimeOutdoors 
on 1/11/21 at 5:23 pm
on 1/11/21 at 5:23 pm
4
3Anyone picked up the new book by Andy Ngo? I started 1984 again last night, but I think I am going to dive into it next.
re: Unmasked Antifa?Posted by Jay Are 
on 1/11/21 at 6:55 pm to TimeOutdoors
on 1/11/21 at 6:55 pm to TimeOutdoorsThat's a weird about-face in book choices.
re: Unmasked Antifa?Posted by HoldenOversoul 
on 1/11/21 at 10:53 pm to Roaad
on 1/11/21 at 10:53 pm to RoaadFascism is not a catchall term for authoritarianism, I see more and more Trump supporters calling Antifa and the left as a whole fascist. There are many different forms of authoritarianism.
Fascism is distinct due to its ultranationalism and (typically) expansionism. Neither of those things apply to Antifa. You cannot say they want to destroy traditional American values, etc., and then call them Fascist.
Look at the actual Fascist governments in history - the big two are Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. Their messaging was essentially "make Italy/Germany great again." Mussolini sought to break a militant workers' strike and to return Italy to traditional family values. Hitler sought to bring Germany back from the humiliation of defeat in WWI, and to restore it as the preeminent power in continental Europe.
Antifa is a lot of things, many of them bad, but they aren't Fascist. Trump is closer to Fascism, Antifa is closer to Bolshevism. Just call them Bolshevists or Communists, that's both derogatory and correct.
Fascism is distinct due to its ultranationalism and (typically) expansionism. Neither of those things apply to Antifa. You cannot say they want to destroy traditional American values, etc., and then call them Fascist.
Look at the actual Fascist governments in history - the big two are Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. Their messaging was essentially "make Italy/Germany great again." Mussolini sought to break a militant workers' strike and to return Italy to traditional family values. Hitler sought to bring Germany back from the humiliation of defeat in WWI, and to restore it as the preeminent power in continental Europe.
Antifa is a lot of things, many of them bad, but they aren't Fascist. Trump is closer to Fascism, Antifa is closer to Bolshevism. Just call them Bolshevists or Communists, that's both derogatory and correct.
re: Unmasked Antifa?Posted by Roaad 
on 1/11/21 at 11:05 pm to HoldenOversoul
on 1/11/21 at 11:05 pm to HoldenOversoulquote:Alot of your words, based on a flawed understanding of my very simple and few words.
Fascism is not a catchall term for authoritarianism, I see more and more Trump supporters calling Antifa and the left as a whole fascist. There are many different forms of authoritarianism.
Fascism is distinct due to its ultranationalism and (typically) expansionism. Neither of those things apply to Antifa. You cannot say they want to destroy traditional American values, etc., and then call them Fascist.
Look at the actual Fascist governments in history - the big two are Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. Their messaging was essentially "make Italy/Germany great again." Mussolini sought to break a militant workers' strike and to return Italy to traditional family values. Hitler sought to bring Germany back from the humiliation of defeat in WWI, and to restore it as the preeminent power in continental Europe.
Antifa is a lot of things, many of them bad, but they aren't Fascist. Trump is closer to Fascism, Antifa is closer to Bolshevism. Just call them Bolshevists or Communists, that's both derogatory and correct.
I didn't say either group was fascist.
I said
quote:
groups using the tactics of fascists
Now maybe you treat us like we are big boys who know the meaning of words.
Smug prick
This post was edited on 1/11 at 11:06 pm
re: Unmasked Antifa?Posted by HoldenOversoul on 1/12/21 at 8:15 am to Roaad
on 1/12/21 at 8:15 am to RoaadRight, I'm a prick. Tell me what about Antifa's tactics makes them fascist?
re: Unmasked Antifa?Posted by boxcarbarney 
on 1/12/21 at 8:58 am to TimeOutdoors
on 1/12/21 at 8:58 am to TimeOutdoorsTake the mask off of antifa, and you'll find a soy latte.
re: Unmasked Antifa?Posted by Roaad on 1/12/21 at 9:45 am to HoldenOversoul
on 1/12/21 at 9:45 am to HoldenOversoulRead about the Brown Shirts.
Add violence and rioting.
Add violence and rioting.
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quote:
2 anti-authoritarian books about groups using the tactics of fascists
One is written by a communist, who literally fought against fascism is the Spanish Civil War, and depicts a police state evolved from an imperial capitalist society.
One is written by a known agitator notorious for posting context-free scenes of violence and just slapping an "antifa" label on them. Making up bullshitee as propaganda for the dumbest version of the state would not be Orwell-approved. So, anti-establishment dystopia vs. pro state propaganda.
quote:
I mean. . .one is fiction, and the other is about Antifa. . .
When someone does read this I hope they come back and give a review. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but based on Andy Ngo's reputation and actions, both books are fiction.
re: Unmasked Antifa?Posted by HoldenOversoul on 1/12/21 at 10:34 am to Roaad
on 1/12/21 at 10:34 am to RoaadI'm familiar with the brown shirts. You aren't answering the question. What about Antifa's tactics makes them fascist? You think violence and rioting are unique to fascists?
re: Unmasked Antifa?Posted by lsufightingtigers1 on 1/12/21 at 5:19 pm to HoldenOversoul
on 1/12/21 at 5:19 pm to HoldenOversoulANTIFA uses “fascist’ tactics. Part of the problem is that people are confused about how fascist and communism differ. Saying one is alt rt and the other is alt left is a misrepresentation. They are both socialist dictatorships where the government takes away individual freedoms for the sake of “the whole”. In practice, they tend to justify murdering their own people. Where they differ is that communism has a global agenda to take over the world and make us all alike and Fascism has a nationalistic agenda to conquer other nations to serve the motherland. In practice they are more alike than different especially to their own citizens.
re: Unmasked Antifa?Posted by lsufightingtigers1 on 1/12/21 at 5:51 pm to HoldenOversoul
on 1/12/21 at 5:51 pm to HoldenOversoulIf you are familiar with the brown shirts, then you know they use fear, intimidation and violence to shut people up who have a point of view that does not fit their very narrow view of the world. If you watch ANTIFA in action and old films of the brown shirts some of ANTIFA looks like the reincarnation of the brown shirts.
re: Unmasked Antifa?Posted by HoldenOversoul on 1/13/21 at 9:03 pm to lsufightingtigers1
on 1/13/21 at 9:03 pm to lsufightingtigers1My entire point here is that the use of violence and intimidation aren't unique to Fascism. Countless groups throughout history have used the same tactics to get their point across.
Antifa doesn't even have a recognized leader who calls all the shots, which is something you would definitely see with any Fascist movement.
I'm not defending Antifa, or Fascism, just noting that the two aren't really similar beyond a willingness to resort to some level of violence to get what they want, which is hardly unique as self-styled revolutionary political movements go.
Antifa doesn't even have a recognized leader who calls all the shots, which is something you would definitely see with any Fascist movement.
I'm not defending Antifa, or Fascism, just noting that the two aren't really similar beyond a willingness to resort to some level of violence to get what they want, which is hardly unique as self-styled revolutionary political movements go.
re: Unmasked Antifa?Posted by The Spleen 
on 1/14/21 at 5:16 am to Roaad
on 1/14/21 at 5:16 am to Roaadquote:
2 anti-authoritarian books about groups using the tactics of fascists
One written by a guy that uses tactics of fascists.
Hard pass.
re: Unmasked Antifa?Posted by tigahbruh on 1/21/21 at 11:25 am to lsufightingtigers1
on 1/21/21 at 11:25 am to lsufightingtigers1quote:
ANTIFA uses “fascist’ tactics. Part of the problem is that people are confused about how fascist and communism differ. Saying one is alt rt and the other is alt left is a misrepresentation. They are both socialist dictatorships where the government takes away individual freedoms for the sake of “the whole”. In practice, they tend to justify murdering their own people. Where they differ is that communism has a global agenda to take over the world and make us all alike and Fascism has a nationalistic agenda to conquer other nations to serve the motherland. In practice they are more alike than different especially to their own citizens
Boom. Thank you.
Leftists are far more similar to Fascism than anything in American conservatism or anything that Trump has done or supported.
AS far as anyone can tell, the term "Right Wing" has no meaning other than "something Leftists don't like."
How can individualist oriented, civil libertarian, decentralizers (traditional American "conservatism") be in any way connected to the centralizing, collectivist, authoritarian ideals of Fascism? Yet I'm told conservatives are "fascist."
frickin dumb.
As far as college freshman level distinctions between "right" authoritarianisn and "left" authoritarianism...who cares? It ends up being the same frickin' thing.
Hitler used a lot of Leftist rhetoric, btw. Look up his quotes about American capitalism.
And Andy Ngo is one of the few true journalists in existence today.
This post was edited on 1/21 at 11:26 am
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