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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS

Posted on 5/7/13 at 7:11 am to
Posted by Methuselah
On da Riva
Member since Jan 2005
23350 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 7:11 am to
quote:

so while we are on an arya kick...

any thoughts to the show paralleling her target practice (head, tits, balls) with joffrey's "target practice." wondering if there was a deeper darkness they were trying to portray with the similarities

There are some superficial similarities but I don't think anything deeper. Joffrey is a coward in addition to being a sadist. His atrocities seem to come primarily from his inner psychotic-ness (for lack of a better word). Arya is anything but a coward. Her anger comes from a desire to defeat her enemies and to get revenge and success for her family and friends (that's what will likely prevent her from becoming a full fledged faceless man).

Now if the show was a little farther along with the Ramsay story line, there might be some parallels between him and Joffrey that you can draw.
Posted by CottonWasKing
4,8,15,16,23,42
Member since Jun 2011
28602 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 7:57 am to
quote:

Ice is said to have been aquired by House Stark About 100 years before Roberts Rebellion. This is way after the Long Night, Age of Heroes, War for the Dawn, etc.


They acquired it about 400 years before Roberts rebellion.
Posted by Ash Williams
South of i-10
Member since May 2009
18144 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 8:33 am to
quote:

They acquired it about 400 years before Roberts rebellion.



right, i thought they acquired Ice about 100 years before Aegon's Landing not Robert's Rebellion


ETA: From asoiaf wifi:

quote:

The name "Ice" is a legacy from the Age of Heroes, and predates the current sword. About four hundred years before Robert Baratheon's reign, the Valyrian steel greatsword was spell-forged in Valyria and acquired by the Starks, who named it after that legacy.[2] It became the sword of the Lord of Winterfell. Eddard Stark used the sword in battle and to personally execute condemned prisoners. After his capture, Ilyn Payne was given the sword and used it to execute Eddard himself.[3] Ilyn carried the blade for a short time until Tywin Lannister took it from him and had Ice re-forged into two longswords, Widow's Wail, and the longsword later called Oathkeeper.
This post was edited on 5/7/13 at 8:36 am
Posted by Tiger Voodoo
Champs 03 07 09 11(fack) 19!!!
Member since Mar 2007
21782 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 8:43 am to
quote:

Just smoked a lil rock-
You n I agreed that Varys used Tyrion to off Tywin. Ya think he planted Shae there as well... As in Tywin didn't know it either...she snuck in while he was in the crapper? Maybe she was gonna off Tywin herself?

Varys does tend to hedge his bets...



I'm a few days behind on this, but frick YES to this 19

I posted about not believing that Tywin was just some hypocrite about whores, but that it was his one badge of honor he held on to while being a cold blooded murderer to make himself feel honorable.

This would explain it, and I LOVE it


Oh, and to whoever brought up The Last Hero passages, great find
This post was edited on 5/7/13 at 8:44 am
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
108098 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 8:52 am to
Varys didn't have the time to do all that.
Posted by BluegrassBelle
RIP Hefty Lefty - 1981-2019
Member since Nov 2010
98921 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 8:56 am to
Plus my issue with Shae as a plant is that it's made of light of earlier in the books that a former Hand of the King had the passageway to Chataya's built because he wanted to completely hide his whoring. That would fit Tywin.
Posted by Ash Williams
South of i-10
Member since May 2009
18144 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 8:58 am to
quote:

Plus my issue with Shae as a plant is that it's made of light of earlier in the books that a former Hand of the King had the passageway to Chataya's built because he wanted to completely hide his whoring. That would fit Tywin.




yea, im pretty sure Tywin is just a huge hypocrite and was banging whores on the reg
Posted by Jayre
Madisonville, LA
Member since Nov 2011
590 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 9:53 am to
kinda off topic but does anyone know where I can get a paperback of DwD? I just finished 1-4 in paperback and wanna have continuity in the collection.

Also, how are the audio books? Thanks!
Posted by Hugo Stiglitz
Member since Oct 2010
72937 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 9:55 am to
I don't think Varys used Tyrion to off Tywin but I don't think he objected.

Varys may have intended to dispose of Tywin but Tyrion wasn't part of the plan.

It wasn't until Jaime confessed to Tyrion about his first wife that he really wanted to kill Tywin.

No way Varys could have orchestrated all that.
Posted by Hugo Stiglitz
Member since Oct 2010
72937 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 9:56 am to
quote:

kinda off topic but does anyone know where I can get a paperback of DwD?

It's not out yet
Posted by manwich
You've wanted my
Member since Oct 2008
52601 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 10:00 am to
quote:

Also, how are the audio books? Thanks!
excellent if you stick to the Roy Dotrice versions

he actually made the Guiness Book of World Records for most voices in an audiobook

LINK



quote:

The greatest number of characters voiced in an audio book is 224, achieved by Roy Dotrice (UK), who performed distinct and distinguishable voices for every role in the 28-disc unabridged version of George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones, released on 13 January 2004.

A Game of Thrones is the first book in George R.R. Martin's 'Song of Fire and Ice' series of fantasy novels. The full audio book comprises 28 x 72 min discs. It would take almost a day and a half to listen to the entire work: 33 hours 36 minutes. A complete list of the names of the characters voiced by Dotrice and the pages they appear on is included in the scanned claim attachments.

Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
108098 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 10:06 am to
quote:

I don't think Varys used Tyrion to off Tywin but I don't think he objected.

Varys may have intended to dispose of Tywin but Tyrion wasn't part of the plan.



I definitely think he used Tyrion to kill Tywin. He wasn't planning on it before that night, but he just took lemons and made them into lemonade. Varys could have easily withheld the information exactly where Tywin's chambers were, but he gave them over pretty eagerly.
Posted by CE Tiger
Metairie
Member since Jan 2008
41584 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 10:10 am to
I think tywin was already poisoned before tyrion did the deed. Red Viper figures out Tywin ordered the kills and does what he does best.

quote:

Tywin Lannister: Dead Man Shitting?

“Where will I find my lord father?”

“In the solar with Lord Tyrell and Prince Oberyn.”

Mace Tyrell and the Red Viper breaking bread together? Strange and stranger.

—Jaime and Ser Meryn Trant, upon Jaime’s return to King’s Landing

“Widow’s blood, this one is called, for the color. A cruel potion. It shuts down a man’s bladder and bowels, until he drowns in his own poisons.”

—Grand Maester Pycelle, during Tyrion’s trial

“To be sure, I have much to thank your sister for. If not for her accusation at the feast, it might well be you judging me instead of me judging you.” The prince’s eyes were dark with amusement. “Who knows more of poison than the Red Viper of Dorne, after all?”

[…]

“Your father,” said Prince Oberyn, “may not live forever.”

Something about the way he said it made the hairs on the back of Tyrion’s neck bristle. Suddenly he was mindful of Elia again, and all that Oberyn had said as they crossed the field of ashes. He wants the head that spoke the words, not just the hand that swung the sword. “It is not wise to speak such treasons in the Red Keep, my prince. The little birds are listening.”

“Let them. Is it treason to say a man is mortal? Valar morghulis was how they said it in Valyria of old. All men must die. And the Doom came and proved it true.”

—Prince Oberyn Martell and Tyrion, in Tyrion’s cell

He found his father where he knew he’d find him, seated in the dimness of the privy tower, bedrobe hiked up around his hips.

[…]

For once, his father did what Tyrion asked him. The proof was the sudden stench, as his bowels loosened in the moment of death. Well, he was in the right place for it, Tyrion thought. But the stink that filled the privy gave ample evidence that the oft-repeated jape about his father was just another lie.

Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shite gold.

—from Tyrion’s assassination of Tywin during his escape from the black cells

The King’s Hand was rotting visibly. His face had taken on a greenish tinge, and his eyes were deeply sunken, two black pits. Fissures had opened in his cheeks, and a foul white fluid was seeping through the joints of his splendid gold-and-crimson armor to pool beneath his body.
This post was edited on 5/7/13 at 10:14 am
Posted by Hugo Stiglitz
Member since Oct 2010
72937 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 10:14 am to
quote:

He wasn't planning on it before that night, but he just took lemons and made them into lemonade. Varys could have easily withheld the information exactly where Tywin's chambers were, but he gave them over pretty eagerly.

Right, that's pretty much what I was trying to say. Tyrion killing Tywin wasn't exactly a per-meditated scheme, but more of a spur of the moment, let's see what happens kind of plot.
Posted by manwich
You've wanted my
Member since Oct 2008
52601 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 10:21 am to
quote:

CE Tiger
good find

i like to see all the relevant info compiled nicely
Posted by Tiger in NY
Neptune Beach, FL
Member since Sep 2003
30357 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 10:22 am to
quote:

Taena about her plots.


Well I surely don't trust that bitch
Posted by CE Tiger
Metairie
Member since Jan 2008
41584 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 10:27 am to
Good chance Varys could have been working the Tywin death with Red Viper and known his current state. What a nice gesture to throw Tyrion a bone and let him finish the deed. If not he is basically risking a great deal if tywin is somehow able to fight off Tyrion s attempt
Posted by Hugo Stiglitz
Member since Oct 2010
72937 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 10:31 am to
quote:

If not he is basically risking a great deal if tywin is somehow able to fight off Tyrion s attempt

Meh, he was going to disappear anyway since Jaime was behind Tyrion's release.
Posted by shinerfan
Duckworld(Earth-616)
Member since Sep 2009
22188 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 10:39 am to
quote:

I think she lives to the end and marries Gendry after killing many, many people. She then becomes Lady of Storm's End or some place similar. Or, she falls for Gendry and dies trying to save him, becoming the first GOT character to fall victim to the conspicuous cock.



What will the Faceless men have to say about all this? Will they just let her take off on a mission of personal vengeance and then live happily ever after?
Posted by 19
Flux Capacitor, Fluxing
Member since Nov 2007
33167 posts
Posted on 5/7/13 at 10:44 am to
quote:

I definitely think he used Tyrion to kill Tywin. He wasn't planning on it before that night, but he just took lemons and made them into lemonade. Varys could have easily withheld the information exactly where Tywin's chambers were, but he gave them over pretty eagerly.


Me and Shark disagreed on this a while back (the plan to use Tyrion) - I didn't think he did at all, spur of the moment or not - but when I re-read the escape chapter it was real obvious. Varys with his Brer Rabbit routine while Tyrion was climbing the Tower of the Hand was a hint, but the moved chest in Tywin's chamber was the icing on the cake for me.

Just read your last post - yeah we're on the same page.

As for Shae and the planting...I didn't want to think of Tywin as that blatant a hypocrite with the whores for one, but if she wasn't brought up there by Varys, then it reinforces the "secret tunnel (glory hole :)" for Tywin theory: Tywin wouldn't have walked Shae, not only a whore, but a witness against his own son for Kingslaying, up the main stairwell...I wanted to believe Tywin's hatred of whores stems from what happened with Aerys and Joanna, in his mind all women are whores, you just pay more for some...He was "betrayed" by his wife, the love of his life, and it fricked him up...if Tywin IS this big a hypocrite, it's possible Joanna made a death-bed confession after Tyrion's birth, or he at least had suspicions prior to it and the birth of a deformed child made him believe it whole-heartedly without a confession...Tywin may have even used the common birth-death as an alibi, and in his rage killed her himself - more likely, allowed her to die... I mean, we've established he's a hypocrite...and we all know he'd do anything to protect his legacy...what's killing a "whore" in his mind compared to his befrigged legacy...what if someone found out the great Tywin was a cuckold?

I totally agree that RV poisoned Tywin before-hand...his bowels were shut down for a long time before he died, and all that stagnant poo poo... malodorous.

Yeah I mis-read the 400 yrs before the Rebellion RE: Ice. Swore I saw 100...

ETA: My math was right, I just sub'd Robert's Rebellion when I meant Aegon's Landing.
400 yrs before Robert's Rebellion = 100 years before Aegon's Landing. I knew the 100 came from somewhere...
This post was edited on 5/7/13 at 10:58 am
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