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re: Why hasn't England been better in international competitions?
Posted on 5/16/12 at 4:11 pm to thenry712
Posted on 5/16/12 at 4:11 pm to thenry712
quote:
Some of his points can easily be refuted, particularly the one about English players needing to go to foreign leagues.
Well, I think (I could be mistaken) that they were making a parallel argument about the style of play in the English leagues. Therefore, importance of English playing in foreign leagues>>than importance of Germans/Italians/etc playing in foreign leagues. I could be wrong though.
1
Posted on 5/16/12 at 4:29 pm to Draconian Sanctions
The players aren't that great, the managers are shite, and the teams that won are better than them.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 4:29 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
The players aren't that great, the managers are shite, and the teams that won are better than them
All of this. I really do think it is that simple.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 4:36 pm to thenry712
This looks like a really interesting book. I'm going to go pick it up this afternoon
Posted on 5/16/12 at 4:50 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
They had no concept of how using a 3 man backline could both improve our porous defense, while also creating more scoring opportunities.
Please explain. The 3 man backline confuses and fascinates me.
And yeah, read Soccernomics ASAP. Great read.
Also, Chasing the Game is a must read for any USMNT fan. Did you know that Tim Howard's idol growing up was Chris Jackson, who played basketball at LSU and also has Tourette's?
This post was edited on 5/16/12 at 4:51 pm
Posted on 5/16/12 at 4:57 pm to BraveTiger225
Meh it's not that simple...
England have had some very talented players since 1966.
Paul Gascoigne had the talent of a Van Basten, but the temperance of Amy Winehouse and Whitney Houston.
Gary Lineker was probably the best striker in the period between Maradona's decline and fat Ronaldo's emergence.
Michael Owen was a world class talent, but injuries derailed his career. Look at his scoring rates when he was healthy
David Seaman was a supremely talented goalkeeper.
Gerrard and Lampard, both fantastic club players, play the same position, and failed miserably as a midfield tandem. Rooney (best English talent since Gascoigne) is a certifiable idiot.
They've had some bad managers (McClaren, Hoddle etc.), some mediocre-to-decent ones (Eriksson), but also several internationally successful ones (Robson and Capello).
They've had talented teams rivaling (1990, 2010) the talent of other title-winning countries, but they suck dick at bringing any tactical innovation to their game, and they choke under pressure.
England have had some very talented players since 1966.
Paul Gascoigne had the talent of a Van Basten, but the temperance of Amy Winehouse and Whitney Houston.
Gary Lineker was probably the best striker in the period between Maradona's decline and fat Ronaldo's emergence.
Michael Owen was a world class talent, but injuries derailed his career. Look at his scoring rates when he was healthy
David Seaman was a supremely talented goalkeeper.
Gerrard and Lampard, both fantastic club players, play the same position, and failed miserably as a midfield tandem. Rooney (best English talent since Gascoigne) is a certifiable idiot.
They've had some bad managers (McClaren, Hoddle etc.), some mediocre-to-decent ones (Eriksson), but also several internationally successful ones (Robson and Capello).
They've had talented teams rivaling (1990, 2010) the talent of other title-winning countries, but they suck dick at bringing any tactical innovation to their game, and they choke under pressure.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 4:58 pm to BraveTiger225
This is a double post.
This is a picture of Gascoigne crying.
This is a picture of Gascoigne crying.
This post was edited on 5/16/12 at 5:03 pm
Posted on 5/16/12 at 5:19 pm to joey barton
What England games have you watched ? They are by FAR the most under-achieving team of all the major competitors...although their fans and even many "experts", INSIST on ranking them among the best year after year after year after year...unbelieveably poor performances at virtually all of the worlds' biggest competitions...that is all !
Posted on 5/16/12 at 5:31 pm to tickfawtiger
Spare me
They've failed to progress beyond the group stages of the WC like once in the past 30 years
Let's quit pretending that the rest of the world sleep walks to international honors with players who are blind, deaf, and dumb
They've failed to progress beyond the group stages of the WC like once in the past 30 years
Let's quit pretending that the rest of the world sleep walks to international honors with players who are blind, deaf, and dumb
This post was edited on 5/16/12 at 5:32 pm
Posted on 5/16/12 at 5:36 pm to tickfawtiger
quote:
They are by FAR the most under-achieving team of all the major competitors
It's not underachieving if that is all you're capable of.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 5:40 pm to joey barton
quote:
They've had talented teams rivaling (1990, 2010) the talent of other title-winning countries, but they suck dick at bringing any tactical innovation to their game, and they choke under pressure.
I thought their lineup in 2006 was more talented than 2010. Below was the starting lineup vs Portugal. Rooney was the only one out of that group who was better in 2010 than 2006.
------------Rooney------------
-----------Lampard-----------
J.Cole-----------Beckham
---Hargreaves-Gerrard---
A.Cole---------------Neville
-----Ferdinand-Terry------
----------Robinson----------
This post was edited on 5/16/12 at 5:43 pm
Posted on 5/16/12 at 5:43 pm to thenry712
I get everything you are saying, but in the international game your demeanor and attitude are just as important as the skills you have on the pitch. You don't have much time to gel with the people with whom you are playing, so any slight disturbance can tip the boat over.
Don't rock the boat.
England needs to stop thinking the world of football owes them something. It's just not the case. (I know you didn't insinuate that, but I felt it necessary).
Don't rock the boat.
England needs to stop thinking the world of football owes them something. It's just not the case. (I know you didn't insinuate that, but I felt it necessary).
Posted on 5/16/12 at 5:45 pm to NOTORlOUSD
England simply doesn't produce the talent of many countries. End of story. Just examine some of the best talent from France since say 1986. Has England produced any players on the level of Zidane, Henry or Platini? The answer is no.
If Spain, Holland, Italy or Germany is added the answer would be the same.
If Spain, Holland, Italy or Germany is added the answer would be the same.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 6:00 pm to DEANintheYAY
quote:
Some of his points can easily be refuted, particularly the one about English players needing to go to foreign leagues.
quote:
Well, I think (I could be mistaken) that they were making a parallel argument about the style of play in the English leagues. Therefore, importance of English playing in foreign leagues>>than importance of Germans/Italians/etc playing in foreign leagues. I could be wrong though.
I haven't read the book so I don't known what point it makes but I think you're exactly right in general. Germans/Italians/Dutch emphasize technical skills and tactical awareness much more than the English. So, the argument is that younger English players may do well to get that training in other leagues. Look at how much Michael Bradley's awareness and positioning have improved in one year in Serie A.
Italy's and Holland's success for smaller countries is probably due mainly to the tactical awareness of Italian players and the Dutch's excellent academies. Those things make a lot of difference with a NT where the manager has limited time with the team. Germany has some of both of these along with at least twice the population.
Also, the most valid point brought up is simply that the EPL's best players are almost all foreign. Look at where the clubs that have mostly English players finish in the table then look at Bayern, Juventus and Barcelona that have a high percentage of top players from their respective country's national teams.
It's maybe bad luck that England hasn't had a magical run some year like, say, Greece did but overall they usually finish about where their talent dictates they should.
This post was edited on 5/16/12 at 6:27 pm
Posted on 5/16/12 at 6:08 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Their players just aren't as good, it starts at the kids level
Posted on 5/16/12 at 6:18 pm to thenry712
quote:Just downloaded it.
I've read Soccernomics.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 7:30 pm to cwil177
quote:
and I went to fricking Nijmegen to see him play. I didn't even know that place existed.
true story, SFP knows that place exists b/c his sister lived there for a year
Posted on 5/16/12 at 7:40 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
It's not underachieving if that is all you're capable of.
Exactly. That's the point of the Soccernomics chapter.
Their performances are EXACTLY what they should be given the players, skill level, etc.
This is the point I've tried to drill into US fans. We (the US) perform the way we do, because that's as good as we are.
Read.
The.
Book.
Posted on 5/16/12 at 8:08 pm to Sheep
quote:
This is the point I've tried to drill into US fans. We (the US) perform the way we do, because that's as good as we are.
NEVAR, USA #1!
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