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re: UEFA European Football Championship vs World Cup
Posted on 6/29/21 at 2:52 pm to I Bleed Garnet
Posted on 6/29/21 at 2:52 pm to I Bleed Garnet
There are only 4-6 weak teams in the Euros out of 24.
There are often 10-12 weak teams in the World Cup out of 32 teams.
World Cup is more prestigious but Euros are harder to win.
There are often 10-12 weak teams in the World Cup out of 32 teams.
World Cup is more prestigious but Euros are harder to win.
1
Posted on 6/29/21 at 2:56 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I think that's probably true for all the big nations. The intra-country rivalries run very deep.so
Eh, I think that varies significantly by club, region, country.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 2:57 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
World Cup is more prestigious but Euros are harder to win.
I hear this frequently, but I’m just not buying this. Some genuinely mediocre teams have won the Euros.
This post was edited on 6/29/21 at 2:58 pm
Posted on 6/29/21 at 3:03 pm to ohiovol
The only two that come to mind are 1992 Denmark (under the 8 team format) and 2004 Greece.
Certainly not 2008 and 2012 Spain, and even Portugal with their unimpressive first round had to defeat Croatia, Poland, and France in two weeks although Wales was an easy draw certainly for a semifinal.
Certainly not 2008 and 2012 Spain, and even Portugal with their unimpressive first round had to defeat Croatia, Poland, and France in two weeks although Wales was an easy draw certainly for a semifinal.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 3:06 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
They nailed it with how they expanded the field properly
Strongly disagree. A third place team out of a 4 team group should not advance.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 3:06 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:They won because they had an easy schedule and a forgiving format. Basically contradicting the arguments for why the Euros is more difficult.
Certainly not 2008 and 2012 Spain, and even Portugal with their unimpressive first round had to defeat Croatia, Poland, and France in two weeks although Wales was an easy draw certainly for a semifinal.
We shouldn't let this current Portugal squad make us remember the 2016 team as better than they actually were. They were easily worse than any World Cup winner in my lifetime. Their level of play would have gotten them eliminated from just about every World Cup group I can remember.
quote:
The only two that come to mind are 1992 Denmark (under the 8 team format) and 2004 Greece.
So if you include Portugal, that's 3 of the last 7 winners that simply weren't very good teams.
This post was edited on 6/29/21 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 6/29/21 at 3:23 pm to ohiovol
quote:
So if you include Portugal, that's 3 of the last 7 winners that simply weren't very good teams
Portugal had the best (or 2nd depending on opinion) player in the world on their squad, that's alot different than the other 2.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 3:53 pm to ohiovol
quote:
I hear this frequently, but I’m just not buying this. Some genuinely mediocre teams have won the Euros.
you are making the point for them. Great teams don't just walz through the euros. too many landmines and even the lesser known countries are very potent.
I'm sure you are going to refer to Greece winning the euros. That was no fluke. That team was VERY good and they executed their gameplan better than everyone else.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 4:03 pm to notsince98
quote:That just isn't a good argument. Traditional European powers lose/draw in the World Cup against average/mediocre teams from other confederations all the time.
you are making the point for them. Great teams don't just walz through the euros. too many landmines and even the lesser known countries are very potent.
This post was edited on 6/29/21 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 6/29/21 at 4:07 pm to ohiovol
quote:
That just isn't a good argument.
The lesser known teams in the WC are never a threat to win it all. Considering lesser known teams have won the Euros, the argument cannot be denied the lower levels of the Euros are better teams than the lower levels of the WC. Is the top of the euros better than the top of the WC? No. But by just about every metric you can conceive, the per team average quality of the euros is better than the WC.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 4:15 pm to notsince98
quote:
The lesser known teams in the WC are never a threat to win it all.
This isn't the argument you think it is.
quote:
Considering lesser known teams have won the Euros, the argument cannot be denied the lower levels of the Euros are better teams than the lower levels of the WC.
Lesser teams don't win the World Cup because there are far more great teams to overcome. Portugal won the Euros precisely because their path was an absolute joke. You will never get a path that easy in the World Cup. Maybe in a cup expanded to 48 teams, but not in the current 32 team format.
quote:
Is the top of the euros better than the top of the WC? No. But by just about every metric you can conceive, the per team average quality of the euros is better than the WC.
Meh. Even if that's true (and I think CONMEBOL is often stronger on a "per team basis" than UEFA), competition at the top is far more important to real contenders.
The argument is essentially that adding Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Mexico, USA, Chile, Colombia, etc. is negated if New Zealand and some African teams are thrown into the mix.
This post was edited on 6/29/21 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 6/29/21 at 5:28 pm to ohiovol
quote:
I hear this frequently, but I’m just not buying this. Some genuinely mediocre teams have won the Euros.
The shite UEFA teams are better than the shite and average ones from other regions that make the WC
Posted on 6/29/21 at 5:51 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
The shite UEFA teams are better than the shite and average ones from other regions that make the WC
I don't disagree with that. I just disagree it makes the Euros harder to win. I think the inclusion of a few more mediocre teams at the bottom is more than made up by the increase in talent at the top and in the middle.
This post was edited on 6/29/21 at 6:07 pm
Posted on 6/29/21 at 6:06 pm to ohiovol
quote:
I don't disagree with that. I just disagree it makes the Euros harder to win.
I think the key thing that now makes the tournament harder for certain types of minnows to win is the fact it is now a 24 team tournament. This year is odd because of COVID, which no doubt has affected how teams approached the tournament, and maybe even delayed national programs like the German from moving on and transitioning to new talents. But we might see the bigger teams get rewarded for deeper national pools going forward once we get back to a normal, full 4-year cycle, which would be Euro 2028.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 6:25 pm to ohiovol
quote:
So if you include Portugal, that's 3 of the last 7 winners that simply weren't very good teams.
Greece was a very good team, coached by the fantastic Otto Rehhagel. Rehhagel used the 4-3-3 as a defensive formation, which was important because it conceded space on the wings while preventing teams from combination play in the middle of the field. Greece was probably the last truly great defensive international team, though some managers attempt to drill sides like this, but can't for various reasons. They weren't an attacking team, but they were a good defensive team, and it shouldn't be held against them, in my view. They closed out their qualification groups with 6 straight shut-outs, and gave up only 8 goals over the 14 games between European qualification and the tournament itself, with 9 shut-outs. That doesn't suggest they weren't very good. It suggests they were extremely good, in fact, but just at parts of the game that don't entertain neutral fans.
Posted on 6/29/21 at 6:41 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Greece was a very good team, coached by the fantastic Otto Rehhagel. Rehhagel used the 4-3-3 as a defensive formation, which was important because it conceded space on the wings while preventing teams from combination play in the middle of the field. Greece was probably the last truly great defensive international team, though some managers attempt to drill sides like this, but can't for various reasons. They weren't an attacking team, but they were a good defensive team, and it shouldn't be held against them, in my view. They closed out their qualification groups with 6 straight shut-outs, and gave up only 8 goals over the 14 games between European qualification and the tournament itself, with 9 shut-outs. That doesn't suggest they weren't very good. It suggests they were extremely good, in fact, but just at parts of the game that don't entertain neutral fans.
I won't pretend I didn't have to look up their qualification stats, but they basically split with Spain and Ukraine and beat an awful Northern Ireland and Macedonia team. Impressive to qualify, sure, but that isn't exactly a murderous route to the tournament. I won't deny how impressive it was to get through the knockout stage of the tournament without conceding, though.
In any case, I'm not holding anything against them for being a good defensively. I think Rehhagel and the players deserve a lot of credit. However, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that every recent World Cup winner has been considerably better than them.
This post was edited on 6/29/21 at 6:51 pm
Posted on 6/29/21 at 6:56 pm to ohiovol
quote:
The US had a more difficult schedule at Copa 2016 than Portugal had en route to the Euro title that year.
how was USMNT in the copa america? i thought that was the south american tournament?
Posted on 6/29/21 at 6:57 pm to NorthTxLSU
quote:100th anniversary event.
how was USMNT in the copa america? i thought that was the south american tournament?
Posted on 6/29/21 at 7:38 pm to NorthTxLSU
quote:
how was USMNT in the copa america? i thought that was the south american tournament?
Copa America does guest teams
This year’s was supposed to have Qatar and Australia but Covid fricked it up
Posted on 6/29/21 at 8:32 pm to ohiovol
We have been in a couple of the tournaments
Wish we could play in it every time and not the gold cup
US and Mexico would be awesome in it every four years
Wish we could play in it every time and not the gold cup
US and Mexico would be awesome in it every four years
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