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re: Thoughts on Orozco Fiscal..
Posted on 7/15/13 at 12:52 pm to Sheep
Posted on 7/15/13 at 12:52 pm to Sheep
(I'm not advocating one over the other, I'm just trying to understand the "younger=better" mindset.)
The tie goes to the younger guy goes into a building mentality. In a perfect world you now have a 2 WC CB pairing, and adding Bradley and Jozy in there means that the spine of your team has a great foundation through 2018. A lot of the shuffling around makes me think that Klinnsman is really building toward that tourney for whatever reason.
The tie goes to the younger guy goes into a building mentality. In a perfect world you now have a 2 WC CB pairing, and adding Bradley and Jozy in there means that the spine of your team has a great foundation through 2018. A lot of the shuffling around makes me think that Klinnsman is really building toward that tourney for whatever reason.
1
Posted on 7/15/13 at 12:57 pm to Sheep
Yeah I pretty much agree with all of that. Interestingly, boca - who is maybe 6 feet- tended to outperform Gooch in terms of set piece production. I think he was actually Fulhams second leading scorer a few years back.
To me, chosing between them isn't as simple as young versus old. Seeing as they are both limited in many ways (you listed them), I'll take Gonzo because he has a higher ceiling IMO, he is better with the ball on the deck, and most importantly, Gooch has obviously lost a step or two that he could not afford to lose. When you factor in Gooch's club situation it's a no brainier for me.
Gooch might have tons of experience, but his game is clearly on the decline, there's only one way for Gonzo to get the experience he clearly needs and that's to give him minutes. If he's not good enough, give George John a call. We can always re-integrate Gooch later if we're desperate, we know exactly what he can do.
To me, chosing between them isn't as simple as young versus old. Seeing as they are both limited in many ways (you listed them), I'll take Gonzo because he has a higher ceiling IMO, he is better with the ball on the deck, and most importantly, Gooch has obviously lost a step or two that he could not afford to lose. When you factor in Gooch's club situation it's a no brainier for me.
Gooch might have tons of experience, but his game is clearly on the decline, there's only one way for Gonzo to get the experience he clearly needs and that's to give him minutes. If he's not good enough, give George John a call. We can always re-integrate Gooch later if we're desperate, we know exactly what he can do.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 1:09 pm to sawillis
Meh. I think there is limited value in "building" for a national team. Way too many variables. I'm sure that Bruce Arena was all set to build for the future with Friedel, John O'Brien and Clint Mathis after 2002.
I think national teams are strongest when you have a summation of parts that are adaptive to the situation at hand. Unless you have players that are wildly above the competition at their position, most (or some) roles should be adapted to the next opponent.
FWIW, I (now) think that Omar and Besler are the correct pairing for the forseeable future. But I also think it's extremely foolish to not use Gooch (if you view them as 1:1 replacements) in challenging matches. What do you do if Omar, well, "Gooches" his knee next March?
Building continuity is a great thing, but so is building contingency. I hope that we'll continue to see a mixing and matching of the CBs (and the CMs) between now and next summer.
I think national teams are strongest when you have a summation of parts that are adaptive to the situation at hand. Unless you have players that are wildly above the competition at their position, most (or some) roles should be adapted to the next opponent.
FWIW, I (now) think that Omar and Besler are the correct pairing for the forseeable future. But I also think it's extremely foolish to not use Gooch (if you view them as 1:1 replacements) in challenging matches. What do you do if Omar, well, "Gooches" his knee next March?
Building continuity is a great thing, but so is building contingency. I hope that we'll continue to see a mixing and matching of the CBs (and the CMs) between now and next summer.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 1:20 pm to Sheep
Am I the only guy that's still not 100% convinced that Omar is a better option at CB than Cameron?
Posted on 7/15/13 at 1:31 pm to etm512
quote:
Am I the only guy that's still not 100% convinced that Omar is a better option at CB than Cameron?
Cameron/Edu in Azteca FTW.
He was awesome in that match, but he probably won't get any run there at Stoke.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 1:35 pm to etm512
I do think Cameron is better... I just think he is WAY removed from the CB discussion.
My guess is Stoke saw what he looked like going forward this summer, and we'll see more of him in a mid role this season.
My guess is Stoke saw what he looked like going forward this summer, and we'll see more of him in a mid role this season.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 1:38 pm to Sheep
In the gold cup/qualifying/and friendlies leading up to the WC, I'd prefer to use the younger guy. He will get better with experience and will hopefully be the easy choice over Onyewu.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 1:42 pm to Sheep
quote:
My guess is Stoke saw what he looked like going forward this summer, and we'll see more of him in a mid role this season.
For his career I agree that CDM might be his best role
Posted on 7/15/13 at 1:47 pm to pvilleguru
That's a whole lotta eggs in one basket. 
All I'm saying is that outside of Bradley, Dempsey, Donovan and Altidore, it's a GOOD thing to see these guys playing with different faces. It would suck for the first time to have a Gonzalez/Cameron (or Gonzalez/Orozco) or Gooch/Besler combo playing together is in a knockout game, or last game of a group stage.
I think it's downright foolish to play Gonzalez and Besler exclusively between now and next year.
Anyway, we're off base about Orozco. He seems adequate to me. One thing I really like is that he seems to really have a nose for goal on set pieces.
All I'm saying is that outside of Bradley, Dempsey, Donovan and Altidore, it's a GOOD thing to see these guys playing with different faces. It would suck for the first time to have a Gonzalez/Cameron (or Gonzalez/Orozco) or Gooch/Besler combo playing together is in a knockout game, or last game of a group stage.
I think it's downright foolish to play Gonzalez and Besler exclusively between now and next year.
Anyway, we're off base about Orozco. He seems adequate to me. One thing I really like is that he seems to really have a nose for goal on set pieces.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 3:50 pm to Sheep
quote:
You *prefer* less experience?
Said there was zero difference, other than age. Which means that despite age they perform identically. So yeah, what does experience help if it doesnt show itself on the field?
Posted on 7/15/13 at 6:48 pm to Sheep
quote:
It baffles me that people can't recognize that, other than age, there is ZERO difference between Gooch and Gonzalez.
Experience.
Posted on 7/15/13 at 6:49 pm to cwil177
quote:
Thoughts on Orozco Fiscal
I think I wish we had more depth and quality on the back line.
Posted on 7/17/13 at 8:55 am to Jwho77
Quiet night, but another solid performance nonetheless. He also sprinkled in a few solid passes. The man is proving that he deserves to be here.
Best defender in the tournament thus far.
Best defender in the tournament thus far.
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