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re: The Truth about 'Merrican Footy Tards, The Beautiful Game and GOAT Candidates
Posted on 6/24/12 at 12:53 pm to Dandy Lion
Posted on 6/24/12 at 12:53 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
Many are adopting it,
in terms of national teams it's not something you can just adopt. it took germany 10 years or so, and they're probably ahead of schedule. they have a lot of ridiculous young talent
clubs are different. man city is a great example of a team putting in more technically skilled pieces with great success. chelsea is currently doing the same
germany is going that way, but it's more of a systematic/german plan (where we see the dividends with the national team)
italy is...well...italy
1
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:02 pm to SlowFlowPro
Germany's style is different from Spain's. They hold possession more, but they're much more direct than Spain is.
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:08 pm to hendersonshands
i don't mean that they're clones, but germany is closer to spain now than germany 10 years ago
i just meant germany has replaced the big, physical defense and cross/heading style with a smaller, passing/dribbling possession style (like spain, but not a clone of spain)
i just meant germany has replaced the big, physical defense and cross/heading style with a smaller, passing/dribbling possession style (like spain, but not a clone of spain)
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:10 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
Germany's style is different from Spain's. They hold possession more, but they're much more direct than Spain is.
It's more direct because of personnel rather than formation. It's essentially the same formation, an adapted 4-3-3 with two defensive mids, and one playmaker (Xavi/Özil).
The three up top for Germany are more classic forwards (Gomez/Klose) or wingers (Müller/Reus/Shurrle), instead of center mids converted to playing as forwards.
Like I said in another thread, Spain would beat that Greek side by the same or a wider margin just based on the talent on the field.
If you're a fan of the classic Dutch idea of total football, you have to admire the Spanish. Anyone at anytime can slot in to any of the positions on the field. Pique and Ramos are just as likely to be involved in an attack as Iniesta is to drop back and defend.
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:14 pm to thenry712
Right, the players have a different mindset which makes it more direct. I have no qualms with Spain's formation or total football, I love total football.
I just hate watching a Spain game when they go up by a goal. I understand it's impressive that they can hold possession, doesn't mean I have to enjoy watching it.
I just hate watching a Spain game when they go up by a goal. I understand it's impressive that they can hold possession, doesn't mean I have to enjoy watching it.
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:16 pm to thenry712
quote:
If you're a fan of the classic Dutch idea of total football, you have to admire the Spanish. Anyone at anytime can slot in to any of the positions on the field. Pique and Ramos are just as likely to be involved in an attack as Iniesta is to drop back and defend.
see i like total futbol (as a dutch-tard, that's obvious), but i just hate the system pushing towards a single style
if it keeps going at this rate, in 10 years they'll all be playing ticka tocka and we'll see another france-spain or real-barca every game (the superior possession side dominates, the other is in a shell). that will get boring
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:21 pm to hendersonshands
I'd agree with that assessment. I'd also add that you should appreciate what Spain is able to with the ball. Busquets had an impecable half-turn touch and back pass that basically summed up why France never forced Spain to make a game. The French had an opportunity to force a low percentage pass from Biscuits, instead he just smartly played it back to Ramos or Pique and made the French chase the ball again.
It's smart football to hold possession rather than hoof crosses/long balls to Andy Carroll and hope he can hold the ball. It can be appreciated, if you're a fan of watching a statistical domination.
It's smart football to hold possession rather than hoof crosses/long balls to Andy Carroll and hope he can hold the ball. It can be appreciated, if you're a fan of watching a statistical domination.
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:24 pm to thenry712
I picked Busquets in my current XI for a reason. Their style is impressive and I appreciate the skill involved.
There is an in between though. It's not just Spain or England. You can attack smartly with short passes and good movement.
There is an in between though. It's not just Spain or England. You can attack smartly with short passes and good movement.
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:26 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
I just hate watching a Spain game when they go up by a goal. I understand it's impressive that they can hold possession, doesn't mean I have to enjoy watching it.
Ding ding ding.
I wasn't knocking Spain. I was just saying how boring they are to watch
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:30 pm to thenry712
quote:
It's smart football to hold possession rather than hoof crosses/long balls to Andy Carroll and hope he can hold the ball.
oh it's certainly smart and risk-adverse
i think the equality of those comparisons isn't fair though
i don't judge the spanish style as being so efficient b/c they typically have long periods of possession. they get similar opportunities to that cross that are much lower risk than their typical possession game
spain does play a ton of lower percentage through balls (on the air and ground) that are like those crosses
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:31 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if it keeps going at this rate, in 10 years they'll all be playing ticka tocka and we'll see another france-spain or real-barca every game (the superior possession side dominates, the other is in a shell). that will get boring
See I can't really see this happening, because each individual FA will still attempt to capitalize on their nation's physical talent. Xavi and Iniesta are still once in a lifetime talents, despite the players coming out of the La Masia factory.
Jack Wilshire is the only real Spanish style player England has produced. Llorente is really the only classic English-style target forward in Spain's player pool.
Case in point is the growing pains the USMNT is currently finding under Klinsmann. Bradley is a great talent sure. Besides that we're still going to field the best pure athletes in international footbal, because that's our categorical advantage. Bradley's 4-4-2 worked to a large degree, because international teams thought that Jozy Altidore was this freak combination of Drogba's strength and Eto'o's speed (seriously), and that Cherundolo had the endurance to keep up with Aaron Lennon.
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:31 pm to thenry712
quote:
It's smart football to hold possession rather than hoof crosses/long balls to Andy Carroll and hope he can hold the ball. It can be appreciated, if you're a fan of watching a statistical domination.
:rollseyes:
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:36 pm to thenry712
quote:
because each individual FA will still attempt to capitalize on their nation's physical talent.
i think germany is the example more than spain. germany abandoned its physical advantage with its new style, imho
isn't england's FA trying to do the same?
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:38 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
I wasn't knocking Spain. I was just saying how boring they are to watch
As much as Dandy hates it, Spanish games where a team bunkers in the box, and doesn't pressure them are far more entertaining to watch. Look at how entertaining the Chelsea vs. Barca game was or even USA vs Spain in 2009. To beat Spain you have to force them to shoot, because it's the best way to actually get possession.
France was more to blame for the average entertainment value of yesterday's game. They attempted to press Spain, and then would fall back into a bunker. It just allowed Spain to make as many back passes as they wanted.
Posted on 6/24/12 at 1:46 pm to thenry712
This is pretty funny:
quote:
Dear Spain,
I'm leaving you. I've had as much as I can take with your obsession with big shiny things at the expense of our relationship. We were happy once when you won your first beauty contest in 2008. You had something of a complex back then but I believed in you and your confidence bloomed wonderfully. You were so much fun in those days: carefree and happy, and our love was spontaneously expressed. Maybe things changed when your Uncle Luis handed over the management of your career to your other Uncle Vicente. Things started well, it was as if Uncle Luis had never left. Then we went to South Africa and almost overnight from 'carefree' everything became about 'control.' Possessions became everything. That ugly gold cup that sits on your mantelpiece now seems to define you. I can't touch your hair or I might muss it up. Kissing is off limits because your lipstick might smudge. What happened to us, Spain? All you care about is winning that Euro trinket, and everything else be damned. Fun is out. If I so much as make a playful grab for one of your breasts you mutter something about me not messing with the gold fringed underwire of your bra while pushing my hand away. Eh? You some sort of robo-babe now, cold and mechanical? You may be efficient but you have no more warmth, no joie de vivre.
Good luck with things, but I'm moving on now. The German gal is young and has attractive laughing blue eyes. She wants to win but, like you once, she wants to win while having fun and making people happy. That English girl we used to laugh at for thinking she was better than she was looks pretty grounded now. She doesn't even wear makeup most of the time, but she looks much better for it. Sure she sometimes looks ragged and breathless and is unlikely to win but there's a certain charm in her new realism and sense of living in the moment. Maybe I'll ask her for a date tonight. If you win, I hope you'll be happy. You'll be in the history books as statistically the best. And although you may be alone and not as revered as that Brazilian beauty who won Mexico '70 at least you'll have that shiny tiara you sacrificed our love for to cuddle in the still of the night.
Love, Football Fans
Posted on 6/24/12 at 7:05 pm to Dandy Lion
Mate, people hate Spain for the same reason they hate Manchester United or the Patriots or LeBron James. No one wants to see a team stomp out all competition. I dislike Spain because their side is so good that many matches aren't even matches. They're just exercises in domination.
Another thing is that many people here still don't understand the game very well, and many people just choose whatever team is the best at the time and go with it. This leads to them being a bit of a douche and pretentious after basically choosing to be a fan of an elite side. People assume this regardless of what you really are. For example, I've been a United fan since 97 or 98 when I was 8 years old and playing youth soccer. I played with them on FIFA 64 and latched on. Same with liking Germany outside of the US. I watched their transformation into what they are now and thought, "Wow, this is fun to watch. I could support this team, when not facing the US." Still, I catch flack from other fans when I wear my annually purchased Rooney shirt or when I claim to be a fan of United or Germany as a side squad. Hell, even I've found myself bored with United recently, and I've begun to root for Fulham and Bolton (RIP Bolton's EPL run) because of my boys Deuce and Stu, which is more fun because it gives me something to "hope for". It does suck to be given the bullshite though. It's a bit disheartening, a lot of the time, especially when the person in question claims to be a Barcelona or Real Madrid fan.
The lesson in all of that is that you're a fan of the best out there and people dislike that. Not to mention that fans of the sport in the US tend to have a chip on their shoulder from constantly being targeted so they have a bit of perceived elitist attitude so they feel the need to defend their opinions to look like they're in the know.
Another thing is that many people here still don't understand the game very well, and many people just choose whatever team is the best at the time and go with it. This leads to them being a bit of a douche and pretentious after basically choosing to be a fan of an elite side. People assume this regardless of what you really are. For example, I've been a United fan since 97 or 98 when I was 8 years old and playing youth soccer. I played with them on FIFA 64 and latched on. Same with liking Germany outside of the US. I watched their transformation into what they are now and thought, "Wow, this is fun to watch. I could support this team, when not facing the US." Still, I catch flack from other fans when I wear my annually purchased Rooney shirt or when I claim to be a fan of United or Germany as a side squad. Hell, even I've found myself bored with United recently, and I've begun to root for Fulham and Bolton (RIP Bolton's EPL run) because of my boys Deuce and Stu, which is more fun because it gives me something to "hope for". It does suck to be given the bullshite though. It's a bit disheartening, a lot of the time, especially when the person in question claims to be a Barcelona or Real Madrid fan.
The lesson in all of that is that you're a fan of the best out there and people dislike that. Not to mention that fans of the sport in the US tend to have a chip on their shoulder from constantly being targeted so they have a bit of perceived elitist attitude so they feel the need to defend their opinions to look like they're in the know.
This post was edited on 6/24/12 at 7:07 pm
Posted on 6/24/12 at 7:23 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
They've allowed 1 goal all tournament and know that once they go one up, the match is over.
We'll see what they're made of against Germany, b/c they'll likely have to play from behind and they certainly won't be able to sit on a one goal lead if they go up.
You can hardly blame them for possessing the ball. The hate they're getting now isn't hard to understand, but that doesn't mean it makes a lot of sense.
They're not as fun to watch as in 2008 b/c they are better at what they do now than they were in 2008, minus a competent striker. If Torres were in the same form, they'd be very hard to beat. I think VDB's refusal to play Negredo and Llorente in the group stage will hurt them in the final.
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