re: Open Letter to ESPN re: World Cup

this entire argument is a red herring.

soccer is becoming more popular in this country. citizenship doesn't define geographical interests. populations, legal or illegal do. and knowing that some radical immigration policy likely won't be implemented, that means that immigrant populations will continue to rise inexorably and garner interests from markets.

imo, with more exposure, us precious affluent white americans will see more of our peers gravitating toward the sport given more enthusiasm and media ubiquity.

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soccer is becoming more popular in this country

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And illegal immigration skews this even though it still is happening.

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Baloo, I think the some of the sentiment against other sports shown by soccer fans stems from a defensive stance that many soccer fans have to constantly take for their sport. No other sports fan in America (outside of maybe NASCAR) has to constantly deflect criticism like soccer fans. If a person meets another guy who is a huge hockey fan, the non-hockey fan probably won't diatribe against hockey because it's an established sport. I've encountered several people who feel like bashing soccer is acceptable because they feel like they have the false pretense of the backing of the American sports fan.

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I disagree about your characterization of non-hockey fans, but I do understand the siege mentality. I like a lot of "second tier" sports like lacrosse, cycling, college baseball, soccer, and hockey. And I've long since stopped caring whether anyone else likes the sports I do. As long as its on my TV, I'm happy. Actually, a lack of a massive following is a positive, as there are less idiot fans. Most people who follow second tier sports have to put in a lot of effort to follow it, so they tend to be quite knowledgable.

Soccer fans are the most defensive. I understand the defensiveness and I completely agree that morons just jumping in to insult the sport are infuriating. But the proper response is NOT to then act like them and talk about how the sport they like is stupid, too. That is precisely the wrong tact.

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thus your point about illegal immigrants skewing TV ratings is negligible.

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So you can throw out one number and thus my point is negligible? The point is illegal immigrants skew the ratings

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I don't really get what you're trying to have everyone understand

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he's using abysmal logic that increased popularity doesnt count because of citizenship status. nevermind the fact that those people are here to stay and will multiply in successive generations.

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But the point is you cant prove the dont watch soccer when it is on ESPN for example.

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Isn't it somewhat hypocritical to ask people to provide links and data to back their arguments but you can't provide any yourself to back your points?

For the record, I think that you are correct that the large influx of hispanic immigrants (illegal or not) does positively impact soccer TV ratings as well as attendance at SOME MLS games. But I still feel that soccer is becoming a much more popular sport in the US. Just look at high schools and colleges that have added soccer programs since the 1994 World Cup (and no, I don't have hard numbers). In Baton Rouge, drive down Burbank past the soccer fields in late winter...you'll see a significant number of people out playing and watching the soccer games.

As far as the leading attendance figures in the MLS, I would wager that part of the reason that Seattle and Philly lead the league in attendance is because they are two of the newest teams. This is Seattle's 2nd year (I believe) and the first for Philly.


But I enjoy watching soccer on TV. Primarily, the World cup and some of the European leagues. I will watch the MLS on occassion.

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I would wager that part of the reason that Seattle

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Very long soccer history in the upper northwest.

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Philly

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Lobbied the MLS hard for a team.

dear lord, i'm having flashbacks of Zach running a similar thread about four years ago (maybe Euros two years ago)
if you don't like it change the fricking channel!!surely there's some Neckcar event or Bill Dance bloopers show on CMT...why start a thread if for something you don't care for?

I've been always of the opinion that the MLS should have promoted already existing amateur teams rather than create new teams. This is the way the J-league in Japan has done it, and in nearly the same time frame, they are averaging nearly twenty-thousand fans per match. That's why I expect the new clubs, Vancouver, Portland and Montreal to have high attendance, since there is an existing infrastructure in place.

While these honeymoon periods exist, considering how hard Philly and Seattle lobbied for pro franchises, I expect they will lead the league in attendance for years to come.

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he's using abysmal logic that increased popularity doesnt count because of citizenship status. nevermind the fact that those people are here to stay and will multiply in successive generations.

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yeah but they're not REAL americans

hell, i can barely call them humans at this point