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Message
re: Klinsmann has a message for all the haters still out there
Posted on 6/18/14 at 11:02 pm to uway
Posted on 6/18/14 at 11:02 pm to uway
quote:
How would anyone know whether it makes us a stronger team?
quote:
For me it’s very easy, if Landon is on the field, he’s [one of] our top one or two players,” he said prior to Monday’s training session.
Tim Howard, about one month ago.
BTW, in case you don't know, Tim Howard knows more than you.
I could get lots more quotes from players, current and past, to counter everything you've said thus far but I'm going to sleep now. Peace.
This post was edited on 6/18/14 at 11:05 pm
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Posted on 6/18/14 at 11:04 pm to kilo
He came back from his sabbatical by playing the best soccer of his life. That's a fact.
And before we go into "It was the Gold Cup" mode, he was so much better than any of our other players. Many of those guys are now on the 23 man roster and some are important starters. Others looked so bad in some games that they were sent home when more appealing options were available.
As for the basketball/soccer comparison, I think the Spurs comment is 100% valid. Pop won the title because he didn't kill his guys in meaningless games the way Thibodeau ran Noah, Deng, etc into the ground in January games in Milwaukee. Pop is brilliant. It's exactly the same strategy coaches use in club soccer to rest older players who are legends but can't play 55 games a season anymore.
To go onto another sport, look at the best sprinters in the world. At the start of the season, guys are winning Diamond League races in the 9.95 range. That wouldn't get them into the final 8 later in the season. Older athletes have to pace themselves so they don't look like fools, like Wade in the Finals (although to the Heat's credit, they tried to rest him throughout the year as well).
Donovan came back looking fantastic in the Gold Cup. And again, he is playing really well right now. Obviously it's a little different because all track sprinters are pacing themselves, while not all basketball and soccer player are, and so his stats don't look as good now as they did at his peak. I don't think it's a big deal.
His "struggles" in the regular MLS season are overstated as well. He was doing a pretty solid job even when the goals and assists weren't up to par. Not as good as he had in the past, but he didn't become a bum overnight and then suddenly become a superstar again 2 weeks ago.
And before we go into "It was the Gold Cup" mode, he was so much better than any of our other players. Many of those guys are now on the 23 man roster and some are important starters. Others looked so bad in some games that they were sent home when more appealing options were available.
As for the basketball/soccer comparison, I think the Spurs comment is 100% valid. Pop won the title because he didn't kill his guys in meaningless games the way Thibodeau ran Noah, Deng, etc into the ground in January games in Milwaukee. Pop is brilliant. It's exactly the same strategy coaches use in club soccer to rest older players who are legends but can't play 55 games a season anymore.
To go onto another sport, look at the best sprinters in the world. At the start of the season, guys are winning Diamond League races in the 9.95 range. That wouldn't get them into the final 8 later in the season. Older athletes have to pace themselves so they don't look like fools, like Wade in the Finals (although to the Heat's credit, they tried to rest him throughout the year as well).
Donovan came back looking fantastic in the Gold Cup. And again, he is playing really well right now. Obviously it's a little different because all track sprinters are pacing themselves, while not all basketball and soccer player are, and so his stats don't look as good now as they did at his peak. I don't think it's a big deal.
His "struggles" in the regular MLS season are overstated as well. He was doing a pretty solid job even when the goals and assists weren't up to par. Not as good as he had in the past, but he didn't become a bum overnight and then suddenly become a superstar again 2 weeks ago.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 11:18 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
He came back from his sabbatical by playing the best soccer of his life. That's a fact.
See, there is just no trying to have rational conversations when you say shite like this.
quote:
And before we go into "It was the Gold Cup" mode, he was so much better than any of our other players. Many of those guys are now on the 23 man roster and some are important starters. Others looked so bad in some games that they were sent home when more appealing options were available.
It was the Gold Cup. His Club form has been "meh" at best.
quote:
Donovan came back looking fantastic in the Gold Cup.
He was good.(It was Gold Cup though) "Fantastic"? I mean, come on man. How do you expect anyone that has a neutral view and knows soccer to take all this hyperbole and say "hey,there is an unbiased opinion"
quote:
His "struggles" in the regular MLS season are overstated as well.
Well of course they are to you. No one will be surprised to see you say that. To others however, who are not looking to hang Jurgen and make Landon some martyr, it does mean something and probably was a contributing factor in him being left off the 23.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 11:33 pm to kilo
Why does Donovan need to be 100%? You think Cassano was even close to fit? That dude was basically still wearing a hospital gown and practically hooked to an IV and played for Italy who had far superior.
The frustrating thing is that we did not take our best 23. It would be one thing if it came down to Donovan vs Dempsey or Altidore, but it was Donovan vs guys we do not want to see the pitch. Jurgen not bringing the best possible roster is absolutely mind-boggling. It is the exact opposite of what you want your national team coach to do.
The frustrating thing is that we did not take our best 23. It would be one thing if it came down to Donovan vs Dempsey or Altidore, but it was Donovan vs guys we do not want to see the pitch. Jurgen not bringing the best possible roster is absolutely mind-boggling. It is the exact opposite of what you want your national team coach to do.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 11:35 pm to kilo
You realize when you criticize Donovan's Gold Cup play, then you are also saying that multiple players on our roster are shite as well. That was the best Wondo has ever played for the USA. Multiple players on the 23 were in that Gold Cup, and Donovan was the best of the bunch by miles.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 11:36 pm to kilo
This is getting frustrating because I look at the content of my posts and I look at yours, and it's really not worth trying to debate something with a person who basically just has two talking points and nothing else. You have no substance. It's just "this generation of fans idolizes Donovan" (although that doesn't refer to me, but whatever) and then just saying my points are hyperbolic without anything to back it up.
I guess it's a good way to lazily be argumentative online.
He had 7 goals and 8 assists in 8 games (6 Gold Cup and 2 friendlies). That was the best soccer of his life.
If it was the Gold Cup, and anyone who could walk and chew gum at the same time could do well, how come Mix, Bedoya, Torres, and Wondo, etc didn't put up those numbers?
See, this isn't what I mean. I wish I had a link to the article that showed Donovan's advanced stats for the 2014 season before he was cut. It had things like goal-scoring passes per game, the number of times he beat opponents through dribbling, etc. He was in the top 5-10 in most of the metrics, and this was while his goals and assists were terrible.
I actually hadn't expected the numbers to be nearly that good. It was posted here a few weeks ago, but I didn't save it. If anyone knows what I'm referring to, put it up.
I guess it's a good way to lazily be argumentative online.
He had 7 goals and 8 assists in 8 games (6 Gold Cup and 2 friendlies). That was the best soccer of his life.
If it was the Gold Cup, and anyone who could walk and chew gum at the same time could do well, how come Mix, Bedoya, Torres, and Wondo, etc didn't put up those numbers?
quote:
Well of course they are to you. No one will be surprised to see you say that. To others however, who are not looking to hang Jurgen and make Landon some martyr, it does mean something and probably was a contributing factor in him being left off the 23.
See, this isn't what I mean. I wish I had a link to the article that showed Donovan's advanced stats for the 2014 season before he was cut. It had things like goal-scoring passes per game, the number of times he beat opponents through dribbling, etc. He was in the top 5-10 in most of the metrics, and this was while his goals and assists were terrible.
I actually hadn't expected the numbers to be nearly that good. It was posted here a few weeks ago, but I didn't save it. If anyone knows what I'm referring to, put it up.
This post was edited on 6/18/14 at 11:38 pm
Posted on 6/18/14 at 11:41 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
You realize when you criticize Donovan's Gold Cup play, then you are also saying that multiple players on our roster are shite as well.
Where did I call Donovan "shite"?
Thats the problem with the anti jurgen Donovan hero worship crowd here. There is no middle ground with you all.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 11:56 pm to kilo
At the bare minimum, I just wanted to bring the best 23. Is that too much to ask?
On the other hand, there are plenty of blind followers of Jurgen just because he was a world class player and managed Germany and Bayern Munich. It is a two way street.
On the other hand, there are plenty of blind followers of Jurgen just because he was a world class player and managed Germany and Bayern Munich. It is a two way street.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 11:56 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
This is getting frustrating because I look at the content of my posts and I look at yours, and it's really not worth trying to debate something with a person who basically just has two talking points and nothing else. You have no substance. It's just "this generation of fans idolizes Donovan" (although that doesn't refer to me, but whatever) and then just saying my points are hyperbolic without anything to back it up.
For fricks sakes. Read your posts since Donovan was left of the 23. Talk about milking a couple of talking points. You really have no room to talk down to anyone about that. Just because you try and package the same opinion in slightly different wording doesnt make what you say any more "insightful" the 20th time you post it.
What you said WAS hyperbolic in an effort to reinforce the same shite you have said for a couple weeks. Really, Landon's best soccer EVER came in last years Gold Cup. Thats what you just said and It couldn't be further from the truth and anyone being honest would admit as much yet you are blasting me for calling you on that shite.
quote:
I guess it's a good way to lazily be argumentative online.
Meh, anyone who even mildly disagrees with the anti jurgen mafia on this board gets met with the ad hominems so Ill take this one with a grain of salt as well.
quote:
He had 7 goals and 8 assists in 8 games (6 Gold Cup and 2 friendlies). That was the best soccer of his life.
If it was the Gold Cup, and anyone who could walk and chew gum at the same time could do well, how come Mix, Bedoya, Torres, and Wondo, etc didn't put up those numbers?
It wasnt the best soccer of his life. You have to factor competition etc.
Group
Belieze, Cuba and only real competition Costa Rica.
Knock out
El Salvador (lol) Honduras and Panama
quote:
See, this isn't what I mean. I wish I had a link to the article that showed Donovan's advanced stats for the 2014 season before he was cut. It had things like goal-scoring passes per game, the number of times he beat opponents through dribbling, etc. He was in the top 5-10 in most of the metrics, and this was while his goals and assists were terrible.
His form has been slightly poor to average at the club level.
This post was edited on 6/19/14 at 12:03 am
Posted on 6/18/14 at 11:59 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
On the other hand, there are plenty of blind followers of Jurgen just because he was a world class player and managed Germany and Bayern Munich. It is a two way street.
You all are cray cray.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:02 am to kilo
Why do you care so much about the club form? If so, then why did we take Jozy? Jozy at Sunderland was an abortion at best, but there was no question he should be our target man.
Some players tend to play better with the national team. Look at Gio dos Santos. The dude has looked incredible for Mexico in the past, yet it seems like he never stuck at a club.
For guys like Jozy and Donovan, they played better with the USMNT because of their teammates, the service they received, etc.
Club form should not be the end all, be all.
Also, in your opinion, when was Landon Donovan's peak since you are refuting the quality of his play in 2013?
Some players tend to play better with the national team. Look at Gio dos Santos. The dude has looked incredible for Mexico in the past, yet it seems like he never stuck at a club.
For guys like Jozy and Donovan, they played better with the USMNT because of their teammates, the service they received, etc.
Club form should not be the end all, be all.
Also, in your opinion, when was Landon Donovan's peak since you are refuting the quality of his play in 2013?
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:03 am to kilo
How do you compare Jurgen to other big managers?
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:13 am to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Why do you care so much about the club form?
Its just part of the larger equation for me. I think Landon was on the bubble and probably close to being on the squad but there were a number of factors that led to him being left off.
quote:
For guys like Jozy and Donovan, they played better with the USMNT because of their teammates, the service they received, etc.
What qualification games did Landon play in this cycle? Was he there for his teammates? For his country?
quote:
Club form should not be the end all, be all.
It isnt but its part of the pie.
quote:
Also, in your opinion, when was Landon Donovan's peak since you are refuting the quality of his play in 2013?
I just dont think it was the best soccer he has ever played. Stop with the putting words into peoples mouths. Its like the third time in this thread.
I think the 2009 and the cup in 2010 was high up there. His '05 qualifying campaign was pretty darned good as well.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:14 am to kilo
Other than the 2008 MLS season (although that will run into competition arguments you brought up), what would you say was better than the 2013 Gold Cup? He completely dominated that thing from start to finish in a way that I haven't seen from any US or Mexican player at any point. I don't see how this is a controversial opinion
You can say 2002 World Cup, and I'd go along with that as a possibility, even though he was set up to be a role player there (albeit a fantastic role player). And the first Everton spell was very good from a competitive standpoint though not as much production.
Well yeah, I mean there's only so many ways to easily refute flawed arguments that are more out of touch with reality than a schizophrenic man humping a fire hydrant while shouting at strangers.
You can say 2002 World Cup, and I'd go along with that as a possibility, even though he was set up to be a role player there (albeit a fantastic role player). And the first Everton spell was very good from a competitive standpoint though not as much production.
quote:
For fricks sakes. Read your posts since Donovan was left of the 23. Talk about milking a couple of talking points. You really have no room to talk down to anyone about that. Just because you try and package the same opinion in slightly different wording doesnt make what you say any more "insightful" the 20th time you post it.
Well yeah, I mean there's only so many ways to easily refute flawed arguments that are more out of touch with reality than a schizophrenic man humping a fire hydrant while shouting at strangers.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:15 am to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
How do you compare Jurgen to other big managers?
So far he has been good for the U.S. mens team. Thats all that maters to me. If he falls on his face, then we get him out of here and find someone else.
There is no emotional attachment for me. No worship or untouchable status.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:17 am to Keys Open Doors
quote:
Well yeah, I mean there's only so many ways to easily refute flawed arguments that are more out of touch with reality than a schizophrenic man humping a fire hydrant while shouting at strangers.
You two HATE Jurgen for leaving your hero off the 23 and you want to call others out for being irrational.
Its hilarious. We just beat Ghana for the first time, are 1-0 3 pts in group in the world cup after 1 game for the first time in a long time and you all are hating on the man because Landon made his own bed and reaped the repercussions.
Hell, we could make the semis and you two would be here calling for Jurgens head because "we would have won it all if we had Landon"
I like you guys and dont want to get the conversation too hot but I would suggest you two need to take a long look in the mirror.
This post was edited on 6/19/14 at 12:23 am
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:20 am to kilo
quote:
So far he has been good for the U.S. mens team. Thats all that maters to me. If he falls on his face, then we get him out of here and find someone else.
I don't see it happening due to the contract extension. That was a bad piece of negotiating from Gulati. What the frick was he going to do? Leave us in the run-up to the World Cup?
I've always said the following about Klinsmann: If he gets us out of the first round with the sub-par group he has chosen, he should get an extension for the next cycle. If he doesn't, he should be fired the day we are eliminated. The Ghana win certainly has improved Gulati's chances of not looking foolish.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:24 am to Keys Open Doors
quote:
I don't see it happening due to the contract extension. That was a bad piece of negotiating from Gulati. What the frick was he going to do? Leave us in the run-up to the World Cup?
I dont get the contract either honestly. More specifically, the duration and ending of the term.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:26 am to Keys Open Doors
Has the contract been published, in it´s entirety?
I think we´re hoping all goes well, and Klinsman grooms Tab Ramos, and slides into Technical Director.
At least, that´s what I´d hope for at this point.
I think we´re hoping all goes well, and Klinsman grooms Tab Ramos, and slides into Technical Director.
At least, that´s what I´d hope for at this point.
Posted on 6/19/14 at 12:27 am to Dandy Lion
quote:
I think we´re hoping all goes well, and Klinsman grooms Tab Ramos, and slides into Technical Director.
This would be the best outcome for U.S. Soccer.
ETA: Isnt Jurgen assuming the technical director duties after this World Cup anyway?
This post was edited on 6/19/14 at 12:30 am
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