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re: How long before the U.S. churns out a player like Mbappe or Harry Kane?
Posted on 7/5/18 at 9:43 am to Pettifogger
Posted on 7/5/18 at 9:43 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Is this accurate/consensus?
He had a down year last year, but yes, I’d say almost every top 20 list of players 23 and younger would include him.
0
Posted on 7/5/18 at 10:02 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Is this accurate/consensus? I'm not attacking the idea here, but I just have trouble placing Pulisic considering my bias and my inability to compare players among leagues
this is a big upcoming year for him. imo, he showed very little progression with dortmund this past season. Not exactly what you want from a young player. that said there were definitely difficulties he was dealing with...different coaches, different schemes, more minutes, world cup failure, his teammates being down, etc., but those are just excuses.
he will be starting another season again under a different coach, and new scheme, but good players find a way to deal, and i'm really hoping he does, because there wasn't a lot of production last season for all of his minutes played.
i know i'm pretty critical of him, but it's because he has the chance to be very good, so i end up wanting more from him. there's nothing more i'd love to see than christian pulisic dominating europe for the next decade +.
Posted on 7/5/18 at 12:23 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
We need proper coaching and academies, the 20 or so free MLS set ups are not enough
Pay to play is also a huge hurdle we have to get past to develop players
This.
I don't know how other cities are, but both St. Louis and Chicago (though Chicago isn't as bad) are limited in their youth leagues for advanced skill.
If you are looking for a kid to play at a level above community league teams, (where everyone gets a trophy) all there is are super-pricey Youth Club Teams that cost thousands a year. It has become a moneymaker for these clubs, and it unfortunate.
Posted on 7/5/18 at 12:25 pm to SEC. 593
Freddy Adu TYFYS
Posted on 7/5/18 at 12:31 pm to SEC. 593
Everyone keeps saying pay for play is a problem, but no one talks about how to fix it.
Posted on 7/5/18 at 12:40 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
Everyone keeps saying pay for play is a problem, but no one talks about how to fix it.
Has to be massive top-down investment. The German, Belgian, French, and Icelandic models make that clear. The ideal would be having neighborhood clubs which offer scholarships after certain ages, but with those clubs having professional coaches for any age group age 5 and above. Then those kids can move to regional finishing schools after which they can sign to clubs or colleges.
I'm skeptical that we will ever see anything like this though. There is a lot of vested interest in the status quo.
This post was edited on 7/5/18 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 7/5/18 at 12:44 pm to crazy4lsu
we may be too big to do such a thing, also
if US Soccer divided the country into like 10 regions, we probably could see some interesting models developed
if US Soccer divided the country into like 10 regions, we probably could see some interesting models developed
Posted on 7/5/18 at 12:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
if US Soccer divided the country into like 10 regions, we probably could see some interesting models developed
It would be cool to see them do this and watch how they develop differently.
Posted on 7/5/18 at 12:48 pm to SlowFlowPro
Which is why the French model is enticing. They have 12 regional finishing schools for promising players in the region, including one of the best academies in the world, Clairefontaine. We would need that many or more. We also have to find a way of tapping into the massive group of athletes we have that are not suitable for any of the big four. We probably have a bunch of super athletic kids who are under 5'10 who would make good soccer players if they had the right training.
Posted on 7/5/18 at 12:56 pm to crazy4lsu
There's just not that kind of money floating around. Professional coaches for ages 5-18? Let's just be extremely conservative and say 3 professional coaches for each "neighborhood club". There's 1,555 towns with populations just between 10k-25k. How much will they need to be paid to be "professional"? If they are to be paid $40k/year, that's $186.6m a year and that's not even getting into the 1480 towns/cities that are bigger than 25k. That doesnt even cover things like field upkeep, travel, referees, etc.
Posted on 7/5/18 at 1:12 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
There's just not that kind of money floating around. Professional coaches for ages 5-18? Let's just be extremely conservative and say 3 professional coaches for each "neighborhood club". There's 1,555 towns with populations just between 10k-25k. How much will they need to be paid to be "professional"? If they are to be paid $40k/year, that's $186.6m a year and that's not even getting into the 1480 towns/cities that are bigger than 25k. That doesnt even cover things like field upkeep, travel, referees, etc.
Who said it would be cheap? The Germans invested over 1 billion between 2000 and 2010. They've invested something on the order of 200 mil a year since then. Belgium invested a similar amount.
There aren't models that are both cheap and effective. You can choose one or the other.
Posted on 7/5/18 at 1:21 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Who said it would be cheap?
No one?
quote:
The Germans invested over 1 billion between 2000 and 2010
They also only have a quarter of our population. They also probably have more resources available to spend on soccer than we do.
Posted on 7/5/18 at 1:21 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
Everyone keeps saying pay for play is a problem, but no one talks about how to fix it.
The USSF coold actually invest in the game for starters
Our federation makes some of the most money in the world yet puts almost nothing back into the grassroots level.
The English FA for example puts over £100 million back in ever year.
USSF doesn’t want to get rid of its side slush fund know as pay to play
Posted on 7/5/18 at 1:22 pm to pvilleguru
quote:USSF is one of the richest in the world
They also only have a quarter of our population. They also probably have more resources available to spend on soccer than we do.
Posted on 7/5/18 at 1:28 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
USSF is one of the richest in the world
But it doesn't go as far when you have to spend it over 4 times the amount of people.
Posted on 7/5/18 at 1:30 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
No one?
I meant that rhetorically to emphasize the investment required.
quote:
They also only have a quarter of our population. They also probably have more resources available to spend on soccer than we do.
Again, I used this as a reference point to discuss how much money would be required. I'm well aware of the differences between the two countries (as well as all the other countries mentioned).
Posted on 7/5/18 at 1:36 pm to crazy4lsu
Im kind of just reiterating my point that its unrealistic for pay for play to go away anytime soon. A few clubs can maybe do it in a few cities, bit it's not going to be a widespread thing.
We just have too many people and we're too spread out.
We just have too many people and we're too spread out.
This post was edited on 7/5/18 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 7/5/18 at 1:48 pm to pvilleguru
We haven't even tried any other model. It's remarkably myopic to just look at geography, shrug our shoulders and say that it can't be any other way. Even if we focused this model on cities and suburban areas (where around 80% of our population lives), it could work. We aren't actually that spread out. We won't have neighborhood teams in the same way Europe does, but we actually have a lot of infrastructure in place already, and we have an advantage as that in many areas the sport can be played year round.
Arguably, we wouldn't be in such a dire position with regard to technical development had we not gone the franchise model with the development of the MLS. It's a very terrible model which requires subsidized youth development from somewhere. The Japanese went in an entirely different direction by promoting amateur clubs to professional with a 2-tiered league, while at the same time focusing on developing technical players, and are arguably in a better position than the US.
Regardless, if we focused on a club-based model, it could also work. For example, you could have leagues run by MLS teams in cities which they reside, which circumvents pay to play, subsidizes education, and offers a method of investment within infrastructure already in place.
Arguably, we wouldn't be in such a dire position with regard to technical development had we not gone the franchise model with the development of the MLS. It's a very terrible model which requires subsidized youth development from somewhere. The Japanese went in an entirely different direction by promoting amateur clubs to professional with a 2-tiered league, while at the same time focusing on developing technical players, and are arguably in a better position than the US.
Regardless, if we focused on a club-based model, it could also work. For example, you could have leagues run by MLS teams in cities which they reside, which circumvents pay to play, subsidizes education, and offers a method of investment within infrastructure already in place.
This post was edited on 7/5/18 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 7/5/18 at 1:57 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
Im kind of just reiterating my point that its unrealistic for pay for play to go away anytime soon. A few clubs can maybe do it in a few cities, bit it's not going to be a widespread thing.
We just have too many people and we're too spread out.
It won’t go away bc USSF doesn’t want it to go away
As long as soccer stays an upper middle class white suburban sport we will never reach full potential
Posted on 7/5/18 at 1:59 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Arguably, we wouldn't be in such a dire position with regard to technical development had we not gone the franchise model with the development of the MLS
It's also likely that MLS could have folded after just a few years if they didn't go with the franchise model.
quote:
It's remarkably myopic to just look at geography, shrug our shoulders and say that it can't be any other way
I'm not saying that. It's just not as easy as saying "just do what Germany did." We only have so much money to play with. Personally, I think things like cheap coaching licenses/clincs and more playing surfaces are more important right now than pay for play. There's always ways to get a kid on a team if he's good enough.
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