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re: FFP - Man City and PSG Punishment
Posted on 5/7/14 at 10:36 am to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 5/7/14 at 10:36 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
They did a good job selling it as something good for everyone but that doesn't change it's real purpose which is pretty obviously protectionist.
sure man
quote:
As I have said 100 times, if their stated aims were really what they cared about they could have done it without stifling competition and you have no response for that. To cap club spending at different amounts for different clubs is by definition protectionist of the established clubs and keeps the level of play unbalanced
There should have been laid out punishments from the start. Its bad for the game for clubs to operate at a loss year in and year out.
quote:
The fact that it's biggest defender on here is a ManU supporter speaks volumes.
how so, we are all held to the same fricking standard
0
Posted on 5/7/14 at 10:39 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
If I have the money and I want to spend it on my club there is no good reason to prevent me from giving another club 30 million euros of my own money for a striker in a one shot deal. I can understand not wanting to let clubs spread that money out and add debt the club. But those are two totally different circumstances which aren't addressed different by FFP
It stops clubs from going deeper and deeper and have some financial responsibility. City tried every way they could to loop hole the rules and UEFA was not buying it.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 10:40 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Oh and I'm sure Mike Ashley voted for it knowing he won't have to worry about Swans or Norwich pushing him to improve the club. Those clubs are now not allowed to outspend Newcastle which means he can run the club even more lazily with the likeyhood of being passed by one of those clubs diminished.
so here is the underlying reason you don't like FFP
quote:
That doesn't mean it's good for Newcastle the club or it's supporters.
A half decent owner could make the club thrive and stop playing victim with Newcastle you guys are the 20th most valuable club in the world.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 10:41 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
regular starters
On the current squad, Evans, Januzaj, Cleverley, Welbeck, and Fletcher all come to mind. All international players, except for Januzaj, who will be soon. Not really a group to scoff at.
This post was edited on 5/7/14 at 10:51 am
Posted on 5/7/14 at 11:33 am to PeepleHeppinBidness
quote:
Evans, Januzaj, Cleverley, Welbeck, and Fletcher
you consider all of those guys to be regular starters?
Posted on 5/7/14 at 1:47 pm to theOG
quote:
you consider all of those guys to be regular starters?
Yeah, man. I would. Those guys are up to start on a regular basis. Not your definition?
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:06 pm to PeepleHeppinBidness
well i'd consider a regular starter someone who regularly starts.
Evans: 26
Januzaj: 18
Cleverley: 26
Welbeck: 24
Fletcher: 12
i don't know that i'd consider someone with 18 or 12 starts to be a regular starter when playing 55 games in all comps so far. these numbers really don't say much though, because even if they've only started a relatively small number of games, each of those guys is definitely a regular contributor, certainly more so than any young prospect/academy player for city.
i may be being argumentative just bc you are a united fan.
Evans: 26
Januzaj: 18
Cleverley: 26
Welbeck: 24
Fletcher: 12
i don't know that i'd consider someone with 18 or 12 starts to be a regular starter when playing 55 games in all comps so far. these numbers really don't say much though, because even if they've only started a relatively small number of games, each of those guys is definitely a regular contributor, certainly more so than any young prospect/academy player for city.
i may be being argumentative just bc you are a united fan.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:10 pm to PeepleHeppinBidness
quote:
Evans
Evans was sixteen when he signed for Man U. He's a youth product but his technical talents were developed elsewhere.
quote:
Januzaj
Bought from Anderlecht when he was 17. Again his technical talents were developed elsewhere. I consider him even less of a youth product than Evans.
quote:
Cleverley
The master of the sideways pass and not doing anything. Ridiculously average. Isn't top four quality in my opinion.
quote:
Welbeck
Fantastic athlete who is hit or miss. Pretty average player.
quote:
Fletcher
A much better player than any of the other Manchester youth products who actually came through the academy system (which in this case would only be Cleverly and Welbeck) who unfortunately had been injured as soon as he started performing, as he was absolutely fantastic in 2008-09 and 2009-2010.
quote:
Not really a group to scoff at.
Any group including Cleverly and Welbeck is a group to scoff at.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:28 pm to crazy4lsu
Haha. First, it's "name some regular starters for Manchester United who came through the Academy." So, I name 5.
Then, it's those guys aren't regular starters. Well, they all start at worst 1 out of about every 3 games, with some starting closer to 1 out of every 2 games. Fletcher has started the least but has contributed regularly over the years to CL and title-winning campaigns. And would start more if his bowels weren't all shot.
Next, it's they aren't Academy players because they only came over when they were 16. Well, I didn't say Manchester United taught them how to kick a ball. But they were guys who came through the Academy before being promoted to the first team. I would say they qualify. By the way, Januzaj was also 16 when he came to United (Per Wiki: He left Anderlecht for Manchester United at the age of 16 in March 2011 after impressing in a skills session in Brussels.)
And look, I'm not a huge Cleverley fan. In fact, I think he needs to be moved on in the summer. But that's beside the point. He's currently a regular starter for United. So, again, meets the requirement.
Then, it's those guys aren't regular starters. Well, they all start at worst 1 out of about every 3 games, with some starting closer to 1 out of every 2 games. Fletcher has started the least but has contributed regularly over the years to CL and title-winning campaigns. And would start more if his bowels weren't all shot.
Next, it's they aren't Academy players because they only came over when they were 16. Well, I didn't say Manchester United taught them how to kick a ball. But they were guys who came through the Academy before being promoted to the first team. I would say they qualify. By the way, Januzaj was also 16 when he came to United (Per Wiki: He left Anderlecht for Manchester United at the age of 16 in March 2011 after impressing in a skills session in Brussels.)
And look, I'm not a huge Cleverley fan. In fact, I think he needs to be moved on in the summer. But that's beside the point. He's currently a regular starter for United. So, again, meets the requirement.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:33 pm to theOG
I'll try to find the statistic but I'm pretty sure Moyes never once started the same lineup his entire time here.
Basically De Gea, Carrick and Rooney are our only regular starters.
Basically De Gea, Carrick and Rooney are our only regular starters.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:33 pm to PeepleHeppinBidness
quote:
And look, I'm not a huge Cleverley fan. In fact, I think he needs to be moved on in the summer. But that's beside the point. He's currently a regular starter for United. So, again, meets the requirement.
Looks like 2 recent academy grads will be on the 23 man roster for England this summer.
What other club can say that, two of their youth players who made their first team are going to brazil other than Southampton . Even though Clevs really should not be picked and I hope he isn't
This post was edited on 5/7/14 at 2:34 pm
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:37 pm to PeepleHeppinBidness
I wouldn't name Fabregas as an Arsenal youth product despite the fact he was signed when he was sixteen, FWIW, nor would I say that any of our youth who came in at that age. Players from abroad do not usually come in on schoolboy or trainee contracts.
My point is that if Cleverly and Welbeck are the standard of the youth academy, seeing as they've spent their whole football lives there, then the standard is ridiculously average. Nothing more than squad players.
My point is that if Cleverly and Welbeck are the standard of the youth academy, seeing as they've spent their whole football lives there, then the standard is ridiculously average. Nothing more than squad players.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:38 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
My point is that if Cleverly and Welbeck are the standard of the youth academy, seeing as they've spent their whole football lives there, then the standard is ridiculously average. Nothing more than squad players.
That are going to brazil, what Arsenal plays by this criteria are going to brazil?
Wilshre and thats it, and hes nothing special
This post was edited on 5/7/14 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:40 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Looks like 2 recent academy grads will be on the 23 man roster for England this summer.
That is more an indictment of England than something positive for Man U. Welbeck has to go due to injuries to Walcott and Rodriguez, but would you really want him to lead the line against a team like Brazil? Would you really want Cleverly to be paired with Gerrard or Carrick instead of Henderson and Wilshere? I'm not convinced that Cleverly will make the 23 to be honest.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:42 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
That is more an indictment of England than something positive for Man U. Welbeck has to go due to injuries to Walcott and Rodriguez, but would you really want him to lead the line against a team like Brazil? Would you really want Cleverly to be paired with Gerrard or Carrick instead of Henderson and Wilshere? I'm not convinced that Cleverly will make the 23 to be honest.
Danny was going to go regardless. Clevs for some reason keeps getting called up
No other club outside Southampton can say have done the same thing.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:42 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Wilshre and thats it, and hes nothing special
Wilshere is better than Cleverly by a wide margin. Gibbs should go based on his form, but he just happens to have Cole, Baines, and now Shaw in front of him. Gibbs has been fantastic. Arsenal's speciality is buying sixteen year olds and making them excellent contributors. We've done it time and again. In my view we are actually better at it than anyone in the PL. But making it through our academy into the first team is supremely difficult.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:44 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Danny was going to go regardless. Clevs for some reason keeps getting called up
Welbeck is better for England than he is domestically, but he still isn't up to the standard of an international forward, at least for a team that could realistically win the cup. Cleverly is horrible.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:45 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Wilshere is better than Cleverly by a wide margin
Not arguing that at all but when he lines up for England he is no where the player he is for Arsenal which could be due to numerous factors.
Not many clubs by your criteria can do what United and Southampton have done in terms of young players making the national team.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:49 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Not many clubs by your criteria can do what United and Southampton have done in terms of young players making the national team.
The academy at United is a shadow of its 90's form. Southampton is currently the West Ham of the mid-noughties. My ultimate point is that I don't think United's academy is as much of a sure thing as you think it is.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 2:53 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
The academy at United is a shadow of its 90's form. Southampton is currently the West Ham of the mid-noughties. My ultimate point is that I don't think United's academy is as much of a sure thing as you think it is.
Southampton is clearly top with the players the last 8 years or so. Wish they could have kept all those guys.
United's U-21's play Chelsea for the title next week.
I really hope english football goes ahead with moving to the german/spanish model letting B teams play in the football league. Would do great things for English players. Maybe they are seeing with the emphasis on youth systems now that the really need to do this.
This post was edited on 5/7/14 at 2:54 pm
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