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Would theoretical free market capitalism create a permanent underclass?
Posted on 12/11/17 at 8:50 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 8:50 pm
A question I've thought about and discussed with some of my other right wing friends:
Given a theoretical society with total free market capitalism and free and equal education, would, over a long enough timespan, the population permanently divide between those with drive, intelligence, work ethic, etc on the top, and lazy, lower intelligence people to the bottom?
You would of course have outliers, some child is born with genius intellect from very simple parents, or the son of a rich smart guy is a druggie layabout. But eventually, the vast majority would align by ability, and there would be a permanent underclass of people with terrible genes and no work values.
Is that a theoretical end game of this type of society? And do we see that to a lesser extent in our current society?
Given a theoretical society with total free market capitalism and free and equal education, would, over a long enough timespan, the population permanently divide between those with drive, intelligence, work ethic, etc on the top, and lazy, lower intelligence people to the bottom?
You would of course have outliers, some child is born with genius intellect from very simple parents, or the son of a rich smart guy is a druggie layabout. But eventually, the vast majority would align by ability, and there would be a permanent underclass of people with terrible genes and no work values.
Is that a theoretical end game of this type of society? And do we see that to a lesser extent in our current society?
19
Posted on 12/11/17 at 8:52 pm to cokebottleag
There is a permanent underclass in every system. It's just human nature. The good part about capitalism is that there is a greater opportunity of upward mobility. Trying to end poverty via legislation is about as naive as it gets.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 8:54 pm to cokebottleag
Not sure, but it has been PROVEN that socialism and communism do.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 8:55 pm to cokebottleag
Absolutely.
We need to be a merit based society, but there need to be checks in place to ensure everyone has a shot at a decent life. This is what 90% of democrats believe, but it is easy for the right to label all of the left as filthy socialist progs.
We need to be a merit based society, but there need to be checks in place to ensure everyone has a shot at a decent life. This is what 90% of democrats believe, but it is easy for the right to label all of the left as filthy socialist progs.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 8:58 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
There is a permanent underclass in every system. It's just human nature. The good part about capitalism is that there is a greater opportunity of upward mobility. Trying to end poverty via legislation is about as naive as it gets
This
Posted on 12/11/17 at 9:13 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
There is a permanent underclass in every system. It's just human nature. The good part about capitalism is that there is a greater opportunity of upward mobility. Trying to end poverty via legislation is about as naive as it gets.
Good Lord, reading a post like this gives me hope for the world. Thank you, sir!!
SPOT FREAKIN' ON! There is indeed a permanent underclass in every system. No less than Occupy Wall Street proved that... when the elite college liberals where shown shunning and disassociating with the - shall we say - less college privileged. There are videos of the upper crust of the OWS movement not including your run-of-mill Libtard in their strategy talks.
Consider Communism, for Heaven sake. Talks a great game about equality. The reality are political elites while the masses eat shite and die.
Look, the major difference between a Conservative and a Libtard is that the Conservative grasps human nature, while the Libtard believes in the fantasy of Utopia.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 9:15 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 9:16 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
Is that a theoretical end game of this type of society? And do we see that to a lesser extent in our current society?
hardly theoretical. look around
Posted on 12/11/17 at 9:18 pm to cokebottleag
Will there be people poorer relative to others? Sure.
But poverty? How do you define that? We call poverty today having indoor plumbing, a vehicle, TV, internet and the same cell phone Bill Gates uses.
Poverty 80 years ago was worse than that.
So sure, some will be "poorer" but capitalism increases the overall material wealth of everyone.
But poverty? How do you define that? We call poverty today having indoor plumbing, a vehicle, TV, internet and the same cell phone Bill Gates uses.
Poverty 80 years ago was worse than that.
So sure, some will be "poorer" but capitalism increases the overall material wealth of everyone.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 9:19 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Trying to end poverty
You can take the sting out, but there will always be poverty.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 9:20 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 9:21 pm to AustinTigr
quote:
Libtard believes in the fantasy of Utopia.
I think that really is the dividing line.
I don’t know how you can understand human nature, and believe in political Utopianism.
People do though.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 9:29 pm to mattgr1983
quote:
it is easy for the right to label all of the left as filthy socialist progs.
You should wear that label with pride, because you earned it.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 9:35 pm to Loserman
quote:
You should wear that label with pride, because you earned it.
How so?
Posted on 12/11/17 at 9:50 pm to cokebottleag
The true goal of any business with capitalism though is to defeat your competitors and become a monopoly. In a sense capitalism is a war on itself.
ISPs and the telecom industry are awesome examples of this.
ISPs and the telecom industry are awesome examples of this.
This post was edited on 12/12/17 at 5:59 am
Posted on 12/11/17 at 10:25 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
Is that a theoretical end game of this type of society? And do we see that to a lesser extent in our current society?
1. The only issue I see is your society would be the perfect breeding ground for a socialist takeover.
I am not a Marxist, but this society is ideally what his theories are based upon changing. The susceptibility is due to a larger populace of proletariat. And if this is a democratic system, well # make the difference.
I'm not advocating that it happens. Just a possibility.
2. And the other side if the coin we need to consider is human nature. I 100% agree with your scenario as it is. The issue is different people have various mindsets on what "best" is. A completely standardized education system fixes that as long as personal bias and other beliefs (atheism or any religion) distort that objectivity.
3. Free market promotes competition. So ideally there would need to be an objective approach to hiring rather than AA or nepotism. Hire based on skills on skills and needs of the company. Blind admission with no race or gender are needed.
Contrary to most posters on here, I think the more determined Blacks will still succeed. There are limited positions, but not every job is created equal. Many companies can't afford to hire outside a certain region. The best grads of any background will pick the best jobs 9/10.
Also the concept of supply and demand will create need in other professions and add opportunities not previously known or explored.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 10:32 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 11:16 pm to cokebottleag
Everything is relative.
If every American had exactly one million dollars. The first guy to spend a buck instantly becomes poor. They guy who earned that buck is the 1%.
There will always be an underclass. I've seen communism and socialism first hand and the difference between these systems and capitalism is clear. The underclass of a capitalist system have a chance to acsend. The underclass in a communist system does not, and are typically not only poor, but decades behind their wealthier counterparts in terms of technology, education, and resources. That is almost never the case with capitalism.
If every American had exactly one million dollars. The first guy to spend a buck instantly becomes poor. They guy who earned that buck is the 1%.
There will always be an underclass. I've seen communism and socialism first hand and the difference between these systems and capitalism is clear. The underclass of a capitalist system have a chance to acsend. The underclass in a communist system does not, and are typically not only poor, but decades behind their wealthier counterparts in terms of technology, education, and resources. That is almost never the case with capitalism.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 11:23 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
Given a theoretical society with total free market capitalism
quote:
free and equal education
I don't mean to say "stop right there" but stop right there
sure everybody can watch youtube videos to learn what they wanna do but paying a guy to teach you directly works much better
if you look at a lot of the guys that made it, they have some guy they either worked under or had as a mentor that they pretty much took those tricks and built up from there
Posted on 12/11/17 at 11:26 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
ISPs and the telecom industry are awesome examples of this.
the government allowed ISPs and the telecom industry to become monopolies
under true free market there would be more competition
Posted on 12/12/17 at 12:19 am to cokebottleag
another word for it is natural selection, the weak minded and dumb and ignorant fools (liberals) fade away and only the smart and logical survive (god fearing, freedom loving, conservatives)
Posted on 12/12/17 at 12:23 am to keakar
quote:
another word for it is natural selection, the weak minded and dumb and ignorant fools (liberals) fade away and only the smart and logical survive (god fearing, freedom loving, conservatives)
i love it when they lie to themselves
Posted on 12/12/17 at 12:29 am to mattgr1983
quote:What kind of checks are we talking about here?
but there need to be checks in place to ensure everyone has a shot at a decent life
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