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re: Would more people have lived if hospitals weren't so quick to put them on ventilators?

Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:41 am to
Posted by Statestreet
Gueydan
Member since Sep 2008
13879 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:41 am to
Navy Times

quote:

Hospital ship Comfort departs NYC, having treated fewer than 200 patients


Yet hospitals were spilling over with patients?
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
179073 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:42 am to
quote:


Yep, look into Remdisivir, Fauchi made it first line, after it was pulled from the Ebola study,



I wonder how much Fauci made from forcing the use of Remdesivir
Posted by Hangover Haven
Metry
Member since Oct 2013
31909 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:42 am to
quote:

Yes, they murdered people.


Who murdered people?
Posted by loogaroo
Welsh
Member since Dec 2005
39305 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:44 am to
quote:

Nearly everything the people in charge did was wrong... Instead of taking a wait and see approach and adapting, they threw everything they could at the wall and killed hundreds of thousands of people.


Almost like they needed it to be worse than it was.
Posted by TROLA
BATON ROUGE
Member since Apr 2004
14358 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:45 am to
Playing MMQB is necessary only in an informational capacity imo.. the hospitals were following established protocols that were adjusted on the whole as more was learned. Once they realized it did harm if done to early, they acted accordingly, relying on the proven methods of trial and error to establish improved protocols in real time.

Doesn’t mean there aren’t those that didn’t learn and they should be held to task.
Posted by Hangover Haven
Metry
Member since Oct 2013
31909 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:48 am to
quote:

I'm not medical professional, but when a person's oxygen levels are dropping, what you can do besides put them on a vent or something like a bipap machine?


Yes I can tell...

We did use bipaps and high flow nasal oxygen, but you can only do so much with non-invasive ventilation. You can't protect an airway, they have issues with aspiration which leads pneumonias.

People in full blown respiratory failure from covid needed higher levels of what's called PEEP, which you can't get with bipaps.
This post was edited on 6/16/24 at 8:49 am
Posted by Lsut81
Member since Jun 2005
83612 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:49 am to
quote:

Almost like they needed it to be worse than it was.


Dunno if that was the reason, but the group think amongst the politicians and medical industry was mind blowing... And now that none have the balls to admit they were wrong is hilarious.

Remember my former pcp a year and a half after the bs asking me if I had gotten the jab and I said no... She went on to tell me how safe it was and how herself and her daughter had taken and multiple versions.

I said, no thanks, I have no preexisting conditions and am going to let my immune system do what it is meant to do.
Posted by Smelder
Member since Dec 2017
215 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:49 am to
The Pts were drowning so putting them on a vent does no good. You can’t force air into lungs that aren’t working . It was all fear mongering via deaths to steal the election.
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
179073 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:54 am to
quote:

Dunno if that was the reason, but the group think amongst the politicians and medical industry was mind blowing.


They tried to ruin the few medical professionals that did speak out.

Not saying she was 100% correct and not a bit of a loon but that Dr from Houston Stella Immanuel comes to mind. They went after her hard for questioning anything and suggesting hydroxychloroquine was working and recent studies suggest that hydroxychloroquine did in fact work.
Posted by thetempleowl
dallas, tx
Member since Jul 2008
15898 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:54 am to
quote:

seems like they were pretty quick to put people on ventilators despite this new claim. 


I don't think they are ever quick to place a patient on a ventilator.

quote:

 I remember this being the reported standard 


This was the standard treatment for patients that would have died had they not been on the respirator.

Covid patients were not just placed on ventilators.

quote:

their rush to put people on ventilators cause Ventilator-associated pneumonia in some people who may have lived otherwise?


They didn't rush to put people on ventilators. They're was a concern that they're weren't going to be enough ventilators.

If you wait too long to place people on ventilators they can already have anoxic injuries that will make it more difficult to survive.

So it's always a balancing act. Were some people placed on ventilators early? No doubt. There are good doctors and there are bad doctors just like in any field.

As far as pneumonia from ventilators go, it's a known issue. Secondary infections can happen frequently and it can be difficult to tell when they are intubated because their lungs are already diseased and one can't tell from imaging if the progression is from the underlying process or from a new super infection.
This post was edited on 6/16/24 at 8:59 am
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
66241 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:56 am to
My dad was in a cycle of vents, bipaps, and nasal cannulas last year when he went south.

I misread your post upthread. I initially took it to mean vents were overused. I see that instead what you were saying is when it gets to that point, a vent is the only hope and whatever else comes with that is just part of the deal.
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
79754 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:58 am to
A technique of supplying oxygen through the anus is being researched.

They may have been better off trying that.

Is there nothing that the a-hole can't do?


Colonic breathing technology
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
179073 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 8:59 am to
quote:

Were some people placed on ventilators early? No doubt. There are good doctors and there are bad doctors just like in any field.



Doctors weren't really making the calls, though. It seemed like it was SOP for hospitals to just vent people if they came in with CV. I remember the press conferences of people begging for more vents several months into it.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
464968 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 9:00 am to
quote:

a vent is the only hope and whatever else comes with that is just part of the deal.

Yeah and we forget how bad OG Covid was because of how weak the variants were. It was still like a 99%+ survival rate, but it was vicious for the unfortunate few who got the bad end of the stick.

There is a lot of hindsight bias and framing issues with this hindsight bias.

Hydroxychloroquine was the first real alternative treatment, and it hit the zeitgeist months into the pandemic hitting hard.
Posted by Night Vision
Member since Feb 2018
18572 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 9:00 am to
On this one South Park episode they ate through their butts and the waste came out of their mouths.

Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
179073 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 9:00 am to
quote:

a vent is the only hope and whatever else comes with that is just part of the deal.



I get that some get to that point. The question in my OP is did we just accept a vent as the standard too early on and kill a lot of people needlessly
Posted by Feelthebarn
Lower Alabama
Member since Nov 2012
3561 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 9:01 am to
No they sure as hell didn't. They got paid more to use a ventilator
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
179073 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 9:02 am to
quote:

Yeah and we forget how bad OG Covid was because of how weak the variants were.



OG Covid was only bad for anyone with preexisting issues.
Posted by Hangover Haven
Metry
Member since Oct 2013
31909 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 9:03 am to
Thing was about Covid 19, no-one knew how to treat it, it was all new. At first we were treating it like pts in ARDS, then they realized if was a blood clotting issue with people having micro-emboli in their pulmonary vasculature.

Once they learned how to treat it with blood thinners and what's called CRRT, Continuous Renal Replacement Therapy, it became much easier to treat, and less mechanical positive pressure ventilation was needed.
This post was edited on 6/16/24 at 9:10 am
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
179073 posts
Posted on 6/16/24 at 9:04 am to
quote:

Thing was about Covid 19, no-one knew how to treat it, it was all new.


Yea I get that.

Remdesivir use is more upsetting than vents being used IMO. We already had studies to know that Remdesivir kills people.
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