re: Would have siding with Hitler prevented the Holocaust? Ted Cruz weighing in now.

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There's no doubt we were correct in fighting the Nazis.

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Respectfully, this is part of the Post-War Consensus that is being reexamined and exhumed. There is, indeed, doubt that the US was correct in choosing to side with the Soviets.

It's not entirely revisionist history. We move further from the emotionalism that is tied to the conflict, yes, but there were absolutely people who argued this position both during the war itself, and in its immediate aftermath.

It is good to have these kinds of sober discussions. Without them, history becomes mythical- and that is dangerous for s free people who can no longer recognize propaganda.

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You're missing my point.

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Nah, we're just discussing over each other.

I agree that we shouldn't have aided the Soviets, at all. That FDR was in bed with Stalin the way that he was is one of the more shameful chapters of the 20th century.

My original point was that there was, indeed doubt that we should have fought the Third Reich. You disagree, and hold that we undoubtedly should have.

I'd venture we'd agree on more than we disagree, but where we differ is respectful nuance.

Lies and projection. Typical

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They are killing an ethnic group to take their property at little slower pace than the Holocaust.

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So, you'd consider the Israeli hostages as property of the Palestinians?

The majority of the SS guards at Auschwitz were Ukrainian SS, 90% of whom were never arrested, let alone prosecuted. Where did thy go post war? Back home. And because of the numbers, many forget that in addition to the millions of Jews he murdered, when Hitler invaded Poland, the first groups he went after....murdered....were the intellectuals, university professors & students, successful business magnates, the trade unions, the artists in all their forms, & of course the Communists. Not saying that Stalin was a good guy, his stats don't lie, either. But being Hitler's ally, don't forget his other ally, Japan, was responsible for the Rape of Shanghai, the Baton Death March, the feeding of Australian POWs to sharks, the beheadings of American POWs.

We really need Ted-Tucker part II

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It may have been in our best interests to let Nazi Germany wreck Stalinist Russia more before we whipped them.

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Can't disagree.

But Russia being on our side in WW2 was the classic "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" scenario. War does make strange bedfellows but this one will always be debated. Hell, Stalin and FDR had respect (albeit begrudgingly) for one another.

We should have listened to Patton.

People also think Churchill was our BFF. Churchill had one goal, and one goal only, in WWII: preservation of the British Empire. If that meant sacrificing every American GI to do it, oh well. Why do you think he kept pushing all those ridiculous side quests (Palestine, Syria, Iran, Greece, etc) under the notion of the "soft underbelly"? I'm sure it has nothing to do with all the British possessions there. He was still in opposition to the Overlord invasion in '44; still advocating for indirect assault on Fortress Europa. George C. Marshall put his foot down and basically told him Normandy was happening.

One thing people seem to forget is that the full extent of the Holocaust wasn't known until after the war. We didn't go to war with Germany because of the Holocaust. We went to war with Germany because they were taking over Europe, and also because after Pearl Harbor Germany declared war on us. Some say that is when Germany lost the war because there was no reason for Hitler to declare war on us just because we declared war on Japan.

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where does this come from?

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Nazis played a significant role in the violent overthrow of the democratically elected government. Essentially "right wing" Ukrainian nationalists.

I don't know if these guys were pro-European integration, but they were definitely opposed to closer ties with Russia, and when Ukraine accepted the Russian trade deal over a deal with the EU, these Nazis started the violence that would lead to the overthrow of the government.