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re: Why is Trump playing hardball with Z but not Putin?
Posted on 3/6/25 at 9:58 am to NC_Tigah
Posted on 3/6/25 at 9:58 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
However, when he began to catch domestic grief for Russian "concessions," he waffled on the Putin deal. That is when Putin sought out military options in the event of continued Ukrainian noncompliance. It was not a plan
to start war per se, nor was invasion apparently assured until Feb 2022.
Certainly, they weren't prepared for the degree of Ukrainian resistance or for anything other than trying to topple the government in Kiev.
quote:
That in turn spurned the horrendously inexperienced Zelenskyy to ramp up Ukraine to NATO talks.
This isn't exactly an unreasonable move if you think there is no way your enemy was going to attack.
quote:
In the end, Putin's complete disrespect for Zelenskyy led to a general underestimation of Ukrainian defense capacity.
Yep. A clusterfrick for the Russians by all accounts.
1
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:03 am to KiwiHead
quote:We have nukes too.
we are already showing that we are candyasses because " oh my Gawd he has nukes.....better not upset him
He knows, we know, and you should know we're not going to nuclear war with Russia over Ukraine.
However, direct conflict between Russians and Americans would fall on an entirely different paradigm
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:13 am to KiwiHead
quote:
What are we offering to Ukraine if we do?
We are offering to keep funding them so their defenses don’t collapse, as they would if we quit. We would probably offer them some money to rebuild. After all, our politicians could not keep stealing if they run out of new spending.
As far as guarantees, that would have to be worked out in negotiations. Remember that the two regions, Crimea and the Donbass, of Ukraine that Russia has conquered are predominantly populated by ethnic Russians. They probably should have been kept by Russia when the USSR dissolved. Also, Russia has been dealt a grievous blow in this war. It will be a generation before Russia could do something like this again, and any guarantee we give now won’t be worth much decades hence. But if Ukraine wants guarantees I suggest they sign mutual defense treaties with European countries. Those countries can start preparing by cutting their bloated budgets and start spending on a defense industry.
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:13 am to crazy4lsu
quote:If anyone (Zelenskyy, Potatobrain&Co, or the Europeans) thought there was "no way Russia was going to attack," then they were f*#king imbeciles. Likewise, the danger of Putin's disrespect in the Putin-Zelenskyy relationship certainly should have been obvious and should have sent up warning flags in the west. But that didn't seem to catch on either.
This isn't exactly an unreasonable move if you think there is no way your enemy was going to attack.
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:17 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
If anyone (Zelenskyy, Potatobrain&Co, or the Europeans) thought there was "no way Russia was going to attack," then they were f*#king imbeciles.
Seeking out defensive alliances in preparation for a possible attack doesn't mean that they thought the Russians would attack in 2022. That took lots of people by surprise, although the US was suggesting they would.
quote:
Likewise, the danger of Putin's disrespect in the Putin-Zelenskyy relationship certainly should have been obvious and should have sent up warning flags in the west.
How could anyone categorize that? In hindsight it seems obvious, and perhaps, given Z's neophyte status, that should be expected, but that seems to have been a mistake of Putin's own doing.
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:21 am to TackySweater
Putin has agreed to peace talks. Z wants the war to continue so he keeps getting paid. And as soon as the war ends, martial law will also end. Elections will be held and Z would be lucky to get 5% of the vote. Z will probably end up in a Ukrainian prison.
He is done. They only way for him forward is to continue to subject his country to the meat grinder.
He is done. They only way for him forward is to continue to subject his country to the meat grinder.
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:40 am to TackySweater
You don’t understand how Trump makes a deal. Stop thinking politics, start thinking business and world peace. Having Americans in Ukraine mining minerals is a HUGE deterrent to Putin attacks. Think and stop watching mainstream news, as is apparent.
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:46 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Their position to make a multipolar world by definition makes us adversarial.
You have actual evidence of this? If so, I'd like to see it. Sounds like a bunch of liberal mumbo jumbo to me.
quote:
I don't understand your point here
Don't or won't? Europe is allowing muslims to rape and murder, but arresting citizens for making mean posts online. This is that which I speak.
quote:
What if they have already said as much?
Maybe they have. Maybe they haven't. Do you have evidence that they have? If so, I'd like to see it. If not, neither of us know...
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:50 am to Penrod
I'm not sure you are reading Putin right. I keep on thinking about his run at Kyiv in the early days of the war. He wanted Kyiv. If you want a country's Capitol you want the country.
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:55 am to RollTide4547
quote:
You have actual evidence of this? If so, I'd like to see it. Sounds like a bunch of liberal mumbo jumbo to me.
The books of Dugin lay out the Russian nationalist position pretty explicitly. But also Russian actions against the West since 2002 have been pretty explicit and suggest that to them, the Cold War never ended.
quote:
Maybe they have. Maybe they haven't. Do you have evidence that they have? If so, I'd like to see it. If not, neither of us know...
Read Dugin. I don't know if libgen is still active any more but you can find some translations of his work there. He's among the most influential and most translated Russian nationalist. Generally, he believes that the Russians are involved in a 'cosmic' struggle against 'Atlanticism,' where he sees the US as an extension and successor state to the British Empire. He has some interesting things to say about the collapse of 'liberalism' and what comes next, but he also centers his vision of Russia as being a land power with access to its historical spheres of influence. That runs counter to what the West has generally promoted, which is sovereignty for peoples as they choose it. Dugin centers his vision around the Moscow-Tehran axis, which he states is the most important alliance for Russia. Dugin is definitely one of the bigger ideological inspirations to the Russian elite.
This post was edited on 3/6/25 at 10:58 am
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:56 am to TigerDoc
quote:
TigerDoc
Sounds like you are very anti-russian. Perhaps you should look into traveling to Ukraine and standing with them on the front lines. I'll be glad to help you pack and move things to storage (for free even).
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:58 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
general underestimation of Ukrainian defense capacity.
And I would also say a extreme overestimation of Russia's military capability
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:59 am to RollTide4547
Couldn't come up with that agreement, huh? 
Posted on 3/6/25 at 10:59 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
The books of Dugin lay out the Russian nationalist position pretty explicitly.
I'm sure there may be many books out there. I'm asking for You to present the information.
quote:
Read Dugin.
You should present the information.
Sounds like you are quite anti-russian. I'm sure Ukraine would appreciate the help. I'll gladly help you pack and move things into storage.
Posted on 3/6/25 at 11:02 am to TackySweater
Because Putin has leverage.
Zelenskyy is the nation-state equivalent of a homeless drug addict living on the streets of LA shitting in bus stop benches but for some reason they would destroy 10 business and 100's of taxpayers lives before admitting to themselves he really is a drain to all he comes into contact with. (short version: Zelenskyy has no leverage).
Zelenskyy is the nation-state equivalent of a homeless drug addict living on the streets of LA shitting in bus stop benches but for some reason they would destroy 10 business and 100's of taxpayers lives before admitting to themselves he really is a drain to all he comes into contact with. (short version: Zelenskyy has no leverage).
Posted on 3/6/25 at 11:03 am to RollTide4547
quote:
I'm sure there may be many books out there. I'm asking for You to present the information.
He's pretty prolific and I quoted a small part of it from memory. When I get home I can quote more.
quote:
You should present the information.
In what terms? Russia's hybrid warfare since 2002? The extra-territorial killings on the soil of NATO allies? There is a long list of Russian antagonism toward the West, including the US.
quote:
Sounds like you are quite anti-russian. I'm sure Ukraine would appreciate the help. I'll gladly help you pack and move things into storage.
I'm definitely anti-authoritarian. You should read what I write about Saudi Arabia.
Posted on 3/6/25 at 11:03 am to ipodking
How true.
Posted on 3/6/25 at 11:03 am to TackySweater
quote:
Why is Trump playing hardball with Z but not Putin?
What has Putin demanded from the U.S.?
Then compare Z, who has zero cards to play, demanding and telling the U.S. how/when/where they will give aid.
Posted on 3/6/25 at 11:03 am to TigerDoc
Actually, you seem quite full of dung. It's always the cowards that run their mouths and try to over compensate for their lack of a spine. You should definitely show me wrong by volunteering in Ukraine.
I'm not a scholar on this subject. I just don't want Americans to die in foreign wars. Russia is Europes problem. We've had enough Americans die in defense of Europe.
I'm not a scholar on this subject. I just don't want Americans to die in foreign wars. Russia is Europes problem. We've had enough Americans die in defense of Europe.
Posted on 3/6/25 at 11:05 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
I'm definitely anti-authoritarian. You should read what I write about Saudi Arabia.
Pass. Thanks anyway. How about we let Euope worry about Europe and we worry about us.
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