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re: Why is the left so desperate to make Ukraine another Vietnam?
Posted on 2/25/25 at 10:58 am to Harry Boutte
Posted on 2/25/25 at 10:58 am to Harry Boutte
quote:If your define "historically ... part of" as "a conquered, restive and oppressed minority," sure, that applies to the eastern third or so of Ukraine for the last several centuries.
the main point is that Ukraine has historically been a part of Russia
And ethnic Ukrainians during that period were always somewhat envious of their ethnic cousins in the western areas, who had MUCH more freedom and autonomy as part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
This post was edited on 2/25/25 at 11:08 am
1
Posted on 2/25/25 at 11:30 am to AggieHank86
Read my whole post.
Posted on 2/25/25 at 11:34 am to Harry Boutte
quote:I did.
Read my whole post.
I should have made it clear that I was responding generally to the silly "historical" narrative, rather than specifically to your post.
My bad.
This post was edited on 2/25/25 at 11:38 am
Posted on 2/25/25 at 11:52 am to Sam Quint
quote:
How did that happen, do you think?
I get it. You think that the deep state or swamp or cabal or Rothstein's ultimate plan is full-on war in Europe. It's highly unlikely, but I admit that there's a chance. It would take someone dropping a nuke on American soil or some huge false flag that the American public falls for, but it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility.
The appetite for that here in America as of February whatever today is 2025 is practically zero, however.
Posted on 2/25/25 at 11:56 am to AggieHank86
quote:
the silly "historical" narrative
Yes it's silly, but it's prevalent, and the same rationale could be used to justify a Mexican invasion of Texas.
The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth never really extended to the wilderness below the fall line of the Dnieper. Since the 17th century that area was generally run by the Cossacks - specifically the "Below the Falls" Cossacks, AKA the Zaporozhian Cossack Host. The Slavs were mostly above the falls, while Khazars, Turks, Bulgars, Romani, Jews, Greeks, some Slavs and other marginalized people lived in the wilderness.
"Zaporozhians – to the Turkish Sultan:
You Turkish Satan, brother and comrade of the damned devil and secretary to Lucifer himself! What the hell kind of knight are you? The devil s[hit]s and you and your army swallow [it]. You aren't fit to have the sons of Christians under you; we aren't afraid of your army, and we'll fight you on land and sea.
You Babylonian busboy, Macedonian mechanic, Jerusalem beerbrewer, Alexandrian goatskinner, swineherd of Upper and Lower Egypt, Armenian pig, Tatar goat, Kamenets hangman, Podolian thief, grandson of the Evil Serpent himself, and buffoon of all the world and the netherworld, fool of our God, swine's snout, mare's a[ssho]le, butcher's dog, unbaptized brow, may the devil steam your a[s]s!
That's how the cossacks answer you, you nasty glob of spit! You're unfit to rule true Christians. We don't know the date because we don't have a calendar, the moon [=month] is in the sky, and the year is in a book, and the day is the same with us as with you, so go kiss our b[ut]t!
— Chief Hetman Zaxarcenko with all the Zaporozhian Host"
Posted on 2/25/25 at 12:05 pm to Wildcat1996
Most of the people involved are ex Eastern European Jews, maybe it’s because of the Pale, or perhaps it’s anger over Stalins purging of the Bolsheviks and they’ve somehow transferred that anger to modern Russia. Maybe they’re angry with Putin because of his crackdown on the oligarchs in the late 90s and early 2000s.
The oligarchy in Ukraine is also predominantly Jewish. It may be tribal loyalty.
The oligarchy in Ukraine is also predominantly Jewish. It may be tribal loyalty.
This post was edited on 2/25/25 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 2/25/25 at 12:41 pm to Violent Hip Swivel
quote:
I get it. You think that the deep state or swamp or cabal or Rothstein's ultimate plan is full-on war in Europe. It's highly unlikely, but I admit that there's a chance. It would take someone dropping a nuke on American soil or some huge false flag that the American public falls for, but it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility.
The appetite for that here in America as of February whatever today is 2025 is practically zero, however.
honestly, i dont know what the hell you are babbling about. i am simply referring to the possibility that a war like the one in Ukraine that starts as a proxy war in which we are just sending money and weapons could devolve into a boots on the ground combat situation like Vietnam.
Posted on 2/25/25 at 1:08 pm to Sam Quint
quote:
could devolve into a boots on the ground
Literally the ONLY people I see even mention that possibility are Trump supporters.
Posted on 2/25/25 at 1:12 pm to Wildcat1996
quote:
Why is the left so desperate to make Ukraine another Vietnam?
Because MICbucks.
Posted on 2/25/25 at 1:13 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
Literally the ONLY people I see even mention that possibility are Trump supporters.
being a Trump supporter has nothing to do with understanding history and how these things escalate. you dont think it is even remotely possible that a war in which we are contributing large amounts of money and equipment could eventually lead to more? it's a total impossibility to you? based on what?
Posted on 2/25/25 at 1:21 pm to Sam Quint
quote:
being a Trump supporter has nothing to do with understanding history and how these things escalate. you dont think it is even remotely possible that a war in which we are contributing large amounts of money and equipment could eventually lead to more? it's a total impossibility to you? based on what?
You missed the point entirely. The only people I hear mention putting US soldiers in Ukraine are Trump supporters.
But, no, I don't think it's very likely AT ALL that we actually put US soldiers on the front lines of Ukraine. But then, I never thought the Republicans would lead us to war in Afghanistan and Iraq either.
Posted on 2/25/25 at 1:27 pm to Harry Boutte
i guess i did miss your point then. what was it? you stated that Trump supporters are the only ones who mention this possibility, but you dont offer any context or analysis of why that might be.
Posted on 2/25/25 at 1:32 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
But, no, I don't think it's very likely AT ALL that we actually put US soldiers on the front lines of Ukraine. But then, I never thought the Republicans would lead us to war in Afghanistan and Iraq either.
i'm not saying it will happen or that it's even likely to happen. what i'm saying is that we, as a country, have a history of funding and supplying proxy wars that end up being American wars.
first it's dollars. then it's dollars and equipment. equipment then eventually requires repair parts. repair parts eventually require technicians and support personnel. technicians and support personnel require security. security requires further support and logisitics. further support and logistics requires more security. on and on it goes. and then eventually the "sunken cost" mindset takes over too and becomes a beast in itself.
again, do i think that is likely? no. do i think that it's possible? certainly.
Posted on 2/25/25 at 1:33 pm to Wildcat1996
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$always$$$$$$$$$$$$&$&$$$$$$
Posted on 2/25/25 at 1:45 pm to Harry Boutte
my mistake, i was trying to have an actual conversation. carry on, friend.
Posted on 2/25/25 at 3:17 pm to Sam Quint
Russia is already at a virtual stalemate.
And that’s without Ukraine getting the advanced weaponry they’ve requested.
Give them the weaponry with NATO
Increasing its support and Putin won’t have the manpower or resources to continue the war indefinitely.
And that’s without Ukraine getting the advanced weaponry they’ve requested.
Give them the weaponry with NATO
Increasing its support and Putin won’t have the manpower or resources to continue the war indefinitely.
Posted on 2/25/25 at 3:18 pm to VOR
quote:
Russia is already at a virtual stalemate.
Good. Sounds like our work is done. We can quit spending money on this farce.
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