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Started By
Message
re: Why can’t Russia just have Eastern Ukraine? It’s not even really “Ukrainian”
Posted on 12/12/25 at 10:51 am to texag7
Posted on 12/12/25 at 10:51 am to texag7
quote:If you actually trust the results of an election held under Russian occupation, there really is not much point in trying to have any sort of discussion with you.
The people in the region you are discussing are (for the most part) ethnic Ukrainians who are also Russophonesquote:
Nope. They voted to join Russia a few years ago
Before the invasion, it is certainly true that there was an ethnic Russian majority in a couple of small oblasts in the very east of the country.
That constitutes about 10% of the territory currently under Russian occupation.
0
Posted on 12/12/25 at 11:15 am to Auburn1968
quote:that was the Crimean Tartars whom ethnic Ukrainians had long despised because of the centuries old nomad vs. settled conflicts that is a fixture of that part of the world's history.
Russians are a minority in Ukraine except in Crimea where they exiled virtually everyone else. After Stalin liquidated and starved to death millions of Ukrainians, he tried to Russify it.
Posted on 12/12/25 at 11:23 am to Auburn1968
These maps vary, but the most accurate ones are actually based on the last time an actual census was done.
Posted on 12/12/25 at 11:25 am to Auburn1968
quote:Your argument from that map conflates Russophones with ethnic Russians.
Russians are a minority
Many ethnic Ukrainians in the east speak Russia as their first language. Very few ethnic Russians speak Ukrainians as their first language.
For example, Zelenskyy is a Russophone. Of course, he is ethnically Jewish rather than ethnically Ukrainian.
This post was edited on 12/12/25 at 11:26 am
Posted on 12/12/25 at 11:32 am to dnm3305
quote:Only since 1991. Before then, it was like a homeland for Palestinians. It existed only as 'an idea', not as a country until 1991.
How long has Ukraine been Ukraine?
Posted on 12/12/25 at 11:35 am to RelentlessAnalysis
A lot of Ukrainians spoke Russian out of necessity much like the Baltics where Russian was the official Soviet language until independence after the fall of the USSR. They all have a big axe to grind with the Russians.
Posted on 12/12/25 at 11:46 am to Auburn1968
quote:In eastern Ukraine, it goes back much, much further than that.
A lot of Ukrainians spoke Russian out of necessity much like the Baltics where Russian was the official Soviet language until independence after the fall of the USSR. They all have a big axe to grind with the Russians
For hundreds of years, the territory of the ethnic Ukrainians was divided betweem Poland and Russia. The Poles let the Ukrainians keep their language and culture, while the Russians tried very hard to suppress it. Hence, many (most?) ethnic Ukrainians in the east being Russophones.
Posted on 12/12/25 at 11:56 am to HubbaBubba
quote:Utterly false.quote:Only since 1991. Before then, it was like a homeland for Palestinians. It existed only as 'an idea', not as a country until 1991
How long has Ukraine been Ukraine?
For centuries, the Kievan Rus (precursor to modern Ukraine) was one of the most powerful nations in Europe. It eventually declined, and its territories were incorporated (mostly) by Russia and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for several centuries. Then, Ukraine was briefly independent after WW1, until its conquest by the USSR in the 1920s.
Posted on 12/12/25 at 11:58 am to _Hurricane_
Ukrainians want to be a part of Russia. Unfortunately, Obama installed a dictator in Ukraine and is going against the will of his people.
Hopefully Putin can give the people of Ukraine what they want.
Hopefully Putin can give the people of Ukraine what they want.
Posted on 12/12/25 at 12:00 pm to BarnHater
quote:It is becoming increasingly-difficult to distinguish between the satirists and the simpletons.
Ukrainians want to be a part of Russia. Unfortunately, Obama installed a dictator in Ukraine and is going against the will of his people.
Posted on 12/12/25 at 12:06 pm to _Hurricane_
Putin is not stupid. He realizes that Ukraine was a mistake. But he's obsessed with his place in history and doesn't want to be labeled a LOSER. That's why he would accept the Trump compromise on some territory and it would not motivate him to continue invading more countries.
Posted on 12/12/25 at 12:15 pm to RelentlessAnalysis
quote:
For centuries, the Kievan Rus (precursor to modern Ukraine) was one of the most powerful nations in Europe.
Bits of history:
Moscow was the little cousin to Kiev until the Mongols conquered the Moscow Rus and put them in charge of maintaining the tribute to be paid.
Early 1238: Fall of Kolomna, Moscow (then a small town), and finally the grand-princely capital Vladimir (7 February 1238). The royal family was burned alive in a church.
Kiev later fell to the Golden Horde after a 3 month siege.
Moscow’s rise began as the Mongols’ chief agent in the north.
This post was edited on 12/12/25 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 12/12/25 at 12:59 pm to RelentlessAnalysis
quote:Sorry, I was cushioning the blow. In truth, they tried, but utterly failed to establish an independent country.
Utterly false.
So at least they tried. Give them an A for effort.
Posted on 12/12/25 at 5:42 pm to jimmy the leg
quote:
It was their way out of communism.
They had no idea whether or not Ukraine would be communist or not. The only area which was even close was Crimea where the public voted to leave Russia.
Russia has been a total shite to everyone not in actual Russia for centuries.
Posted on 12/12/25 at 6:36 pm to _Hurricane_
Ukraine is not even really a country. It was always just a cultural region known as “The Ukraine”. Calling it a country is like calling Acadiana a state.
Posted on 12/12/25 at 6:50 pm to retired_tiger
quote:
Russia attacks the United States ........ why can't Russia just have eastern United States?
Because we would kill them and win?
Posted on 12/12/25 at 7:10 pm to soonerinlOUisiana
Define what a country is then.
Posted on 12/12/25 at 7:49 pm to _Hurricane_
quote:why cant Ukraine just have western Russia?
Why can’t Russia just have Eastern Ukraine? It’s not even really “Ukrainian”
Posted on 12/12/25 at 7:55 pm to uziyourillusion
I guess large swaths of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas should go back to Mexico under this flimsy justification.
I don't have any issues giving California to Mexico. Throw in Newsom, a fifth round draft pick and an undisclosed amount of cash.
I don't have any issues giving California to Mexico. Throw in Newsom, a fifth round draft pick and an undisclosed amount of cash.
This post was edited on 12/12/25 at 8:04 pm
Posted on 12/12/25 at 8:52 pm to _Hurricane_
quote:
Did Mexico invade and now control those states while we beg other nations to send money and men to take them back? Or is your analogy flimsy??
Ah, so as an American you would just give up American territory because it’s occupied by a stronger force? Dang, if only the Vietcong and taliban was as cowardly as you are, things would have gone so much better for our much more powerful force.
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