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Started By
Message
re: Whites have an unfair advantage. BIPOC communities can’t get ahead.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 12:51 pm to Zach
Posted on 1/12/23 at 12:51 pm to Zach
quote:
Simple question: Do you believe the media is objective or work for the Dem party?
I definitely think media is more Democrat-leaning, not that they work for the Dem party.
Professional managerial class dominates media in the US and they're a group that leans left-wing.
However, right-wing media absolutely exists as well through radio and Fox News.
So no media can be truly objective. We all have our own biases and even journalists have biases that seep into their work.
1
Posted on 1/12/23 at 12:52 pm to CAPEX
It makes perfect sense to vote against your interests because of one man.
Carry on.
Carry on.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 12:53 pm to CAPEX
quote:
We're products of the system around us whether it be the value system we grew up, the state that you belong to, and the language you speak.
Yes, the unique combination of these make us individuals.
To apply this to your post about “whites inheriting farms” that doesn’t apply to anywhere close to 95% of whites.
As correctly stated, a white person who didn’t inherit a farm, and that’s >95%, is disadvantaged to becoming a farmer over a black who didn’t inherit a farm.
This isn’t complicated. You think that I, the son of mill workers, somehow has a leg up in becoming a farmer, because some tiny percentage of white Americans inherited a farm. I think a black person has a leg up because the federal and state govts will help them, the individual, obtain financing over me.
This post was edited on 1/12/23 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 1/12/23 at 12:53 pm to CAPEX
quote:
I work at an asset management firm.
Really? And you're on here arguing that being black in corporate America is a disadvantage today?
Or did I misread your posts skimming through this thread?
quote:
until they ditch the guy and Trumpism.
Can you articulate what Trumpism is?
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:00 pm to CAPEX
quote:
I definitely think media is more Democrat-leaning, not that they work for the Dem party. Professional managerial class dominates media in the US and they're a group that leans left-wing.
The CDC gave media $1B to discredit 'misinformation' about Covid. Information that turned out to be true. The CDC is not a corporation. They are part of govt and use govt funds.
quote:
However, right-wing media absolutely exists as well through radio and Fox News.
radio + Fox = 1% of media. The other 99% get their stories from the White House. That's why they use the exact same wording.
I'm afraid your problem is ignorance due to insufficient consumption of varied information. When people like you face opinions that clash with your prior opinion it creates stress which requires rejection. That's where the label 'conspiracy theory' comes in handy. It prevents you from having to think critically.
You will always be disturbed by politicians who warn about the elimination of individual freedom in America and the growing strength of govt. That means you will be disturbed by the truth because that's exactly what is happening right now.
This post was edited on 1/12/23 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:03 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:
I think a black person has a leg up because the federal and state govts will help them, the individual, obtain financing over me.
Using your own logic:
Only Black people who apply for the federal and state government have a leg up and receive a grant, not all Black people.
If we're all individuals, how does a Black person who doesn't receive the federal government assistance benefit from a Black person who is successfully being given government assistance?
It's pretty similar to inheriting a farm in your example. If 95% of Black people do not get government assistance, how does the 5% that do get a leg up benefit the other 95%?
You're not treating them as individuals but as a group.
Why are you treating inheritance as a good given to an individual as opposed to federal assistance which is also given to individuals?
You can't have it both ways. The government isn't giving assistance to *every* Black person so you can't possibly conclude that Black people, who are individuals as you've pointed out, have more of an opportunity.
Either you treat white people inheriting farmland and non-white people getting farm assistance as goods given to the individual or goods given to the group.
This post was edited on 1/12/23 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:09 pm to Zach
quote:
I'm afraid your problem is ignorance due to insufficient consumption of varied information. When people like you face opinions that clash with your prior opinion it creates stress which requires rejection. That's where the label 'conspiracy theory' comes in handy. It prevents you from having to think critically.
You will always be disturbed by politicians who warn about the elimination of individual freedom in America and the growing strength of govt. That means you will be disturbed by the truth because that's exactly what is happening right now.
I literally browse this forum on a day to day basis.
I watch right-wing talk shows, I read the Wall Street Journal, National Review and even Fox News. I listen to talks given by the Federalist Society. I even read research papers published by the Heritage Foundation and the Tax Policy Foundation which advocates for right-wing tax policy.
I read just as much right-wing media as I do left-wing media.
With all due respect, I expose myself to a variety of viewpoints. If I didn't, I wouldn't be commenting on this forum.
I consume a wider variety of sources than most people on this forum. I probably read more Conservative sources than Liberal sources so your argument that I don't expose myself to a variety of sources is completely unfounded.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:11 pm to CAPEX
quote:
You can't have it both ways. The government isn't giving assistance to *every* Black person so you can't possibly conclude that Black people, who are individuals as you've pointed out, have more of an opportunity.
Every black person doesn't need to have an advantage in order to prove that generally blacks have more advantages than whites. It's called affirmative action, race quotas.
Here is an example of how I was disadvantaged because I was white.
I was a National Merit Scholar. I was poor and needed academic scholarships to go to college. The Ivy League colleges refused. Every single black National Merit Scholar who applied for scholarships to the Ivies got it. Therefore, I was rejected because of my skin color.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:11 pm to CAPEX
quote:
CAPEX
I don’t follow what you are saying at all.
If I want to become a farmer, but didn’t inherit a farm and I am white, I have less avenues for assistance than if I am a black person who wants to become a farmer. It’s just that simple.
I don’t think having white farmers benefits whites or black farmers benefits blacks. I do think having programs that provide funding for one group vs another benefits those individuals in the targeted group who take advantage, something unavailable to those not in the targeted group.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:13 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Really? And you're on here arguing that being black in corporate America is a disadvantage today?
No, I'm arguing that different groups face disadvantages in different ways.
quote:
Can you articulate what Trumpism is?
Sure, I'd say that it's protectionism over free trade, advocating for a closed economy over globalization, restricting immigration over immigration liberalization, and social conservatism.
It's about expanding the deficit without raising taxes and generally being full of contradictory opinions - being for free markets yet being against globalization.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:14 pm to Zach
quote:
Every black person doesn't need to have an advantage in order to prove that generally blacks have more advantages than whites. It's called affirmative action, race quotas. Here is an example of how I was disadvantaged because I was white. I was a National Merit Scholar. I was poor and needed academic scholarships to go to college. The Ivy League colleges refused. Every single black National Merit Scholar who applied for scholarships to the Ivies got it. Therefore, I was rejected because of my skin color.
My son experienced similar. He did not have the grades to get into the school of his choice as a white male from a upper middle class home. His friend who is black, has worse grades, has lower SAT not only got admitted but got a substantial scholarship.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:17 pm to Zach
quote:
Here is an example of how I was disadvantaged because I was white.
I was a National Merit Scholar. I was poor and needed academic scholarships to go to college. The Ivy League colleges refused. Every single black National Merit Scholar who applied for scholarships to the Ivies got it. Therefore, I was rejected because of my skin color.
Using the same logic, c-suite executives are disproportionately white.
Your own logic would suggest that this is indicative of disadvantages that Black Americans face then?
quote:
Every black person doesn't need to have an advantage in order to prove that generally blacks have more advantages than whites. It's called affirmative action, race quotas.
This doesn't prove that at all and if what you're saying is true, it would show that Black Americans have an advantage in one aspect of life as opposed to having more advantages overall.
In fact, according to opinion polling, 56% of white Americans say that being white helps in America so if we're using anecdotal lived experience, the polling would seem to contradict you.
This post was edited on 1/12/23 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:21 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:
My son experienced similar. He did not have the grades to get into the school of his choice as a white male from a upper middle class home. His friend who is black, has worse grades, has lower SAT not only got admitted but got a substantial scholarship.
I had a 35 ACT, valedictorian of a 300 size class and a perfect GPA.
I was rejected 4 years ago from Harvard/Yale/Princeton.
That doesn't suggest that I face more disadvantages in America than a Black person though which is your logic.
This post was edited on 1/12/23 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:24 pm to CAPEX
quote:
I consume a wider variety of sources than most people on this forum. I probably read more Conservative sources than Liberal sources so your argument that I don't expose myself to a variety of sources is completely unfounded.
I checked yesterday's history which was very typical of my reading day. I read/watched 200 aticles/video presentations.
I've done that every day for 30 years. Before that I read 4 newspapers and 1 news mag per day starting at age 13. At 12 I read the encyclopedia one summer. In HS my debate files contained over 1,000 pages of briefs that I researched myself and defended against counter arguments every weekend from very smart opponents.
You probably think you're well read because people judge themselves against those they associate with and most people out there are extremely ignorant.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:24 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:
If I want to become a farmer, but didn’t inherit a farm and I am white, I have less avenues for assistance than if I am a black person who wants to become a farmer. It’s just that simple.
I don't quite agree.
It's not that simple at all.
quote:
I do think having programs that provide funding for one group vs another benefits those individuals in the targeted group who take advantage, something unavailable to those not in the targeted group.
Not if it's not available to all members of the targeted group.
It's exactly similar to the inheritance as a good. It's not a good that's available to everyone and neither is federal/government assistance.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:24 pm to CAPEX
quote:
That doesn't suggest that I face more disadvantages in America than a Black person though which is your logic.
If a black dude didn't have your credentials and got in, you bet your communist arse it does.
But like most things Democrats say on this board, you most likely lie like a mother fricker.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:25 pm to CAPEX
quote:
I had a 35 ACT, valedictorian of a 300 size class and a perfect GPA. I was rejected 4 years ago from Harvard/Yale/Princeton. That doesn't suggest that I face more disadvantages in America than a Black person though which is your logic.
No, my logic is that you face a disadvantage, vs Blacks, in getting into that school. Same as you face a disadvantage to obtaining funding for a farm. You might well have an advantage when it comes to something else.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:27 pm to CAPEX
quote:
It's exactly similar to the inheritance as a good.
It’s not at all like an inheritance
quote:
It's not a good that's available to everyone and neither is federal/government assistance.
Federal/govt benefits should not be determined based on skin color.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:27 pm to Zach
quote:
I checked yesterday's history which was very typical of my reading day. I read/watched 200 aticles/video presentations.
I've done that every day for 30 years. Before that I read 4 newspapers and 1 news mag per day starting at age 13. At 12 I read the encyclopedia one summer. In HS my debate files contained over 1,000 pages of briefs that I researched myself and defended against counter arguments every weekend from very smart opponents.
If we're going to go there:
I read a similar number of articles on a day to day basis + I read Bloomberg + I read the private research written by the economics firms my firm employs.
I read the FT, the Economist, the NY Times every day and I read extensively on the information that S&T staff at every single bank sends to me.
quote:
You probably think you're well read because people judge themselves against those they associate with and most people out there are extremely ignorant.
Most of my office have been educated at elite schools - some did go to Ivy League schools so if the people I associate with aren't well-read, I've got no clue who you're defining as well-read.
Posted on 1/12/23 at 1:29 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:
It’s not at all like an inheritance
You've not explained how though in the slightest.
They're both goods distributed to a small number of individuals by the characteristic of their birth.
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