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Started By
Message
re: White House preparing for major narrative shift: sudden deaths = Long COVID, not the vaxx.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:43 pm to TigerDoc
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:43 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
we can end up with blind convictions and get stuck with beliefs we'd be better off getting rid of.
We can end up in the exact same situation by listening to “experts”. Now what?
1
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:44 pm to Powerman
quote:
Yes. I'm a construction manager. What's your point?
That you aren’t smart.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:44 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
and anecdotes isn't as reliable as what science is doing
Did science tell doctors that shutting down the economy would be an acceptable tradeoff?
The medical field elevated itself to a status higher than it should have been, now has lost trust.
Doctors and medical groups wanted the nation shut down., totally oblivious to the social and economic costs, areas they're ignorant.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:45 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
It's a massive industry with motives that are both humanitarian and public-interested as well as capitalistic and self-interested. It's what neoliberal capitalism has created and it presents a problem for credibility in public health even as it's powerful AF at producing knowledge and tech.
The problem where Covid is concerned is the “humanitarian and public-interested” element of the industry vanished completely.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:47 pm to Prettyboy Floyd
quote:
So goddamn glad i fought back and didn't inject that MRNA jab into my veins when my company threaten to fire all of us who refused it.
I was going to get my clot shot right after my physical therapy appointment and my physical therapist talked me out of it. They were giving clot shots next door at my doctors clinic. That was about the same time when they approved the shots for everyone over 60 to come and get them. My physical therapist might have saved my life.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:47 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Which consensus?
The consensus position is that these vaccines are comparably safe to other vaccines in the short term, that the long-term is not known as they've only been around for 2 years, but that the community's priors are that they're reasonably safe to give with respect to long-term risks which are are usually minimal with vaccines and provided there be ongoing research (which is happening) to monitor them. There is more of a track record for the mRNA tech from previous applications in humans and animals than is usually described around here and there are alternative vaccines with traditional mechanisms for those worried about novel mRNA vaccines in people.
This post was edited on 1/13/23 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:48 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Doctors and medical groups wanted the nation shut down., totally oblivious to the social and economic costs, areas they're ignorant.
Not to mention Doctors/scientists should know you can’t hide from a virus as transmittable as C19.
Lockdowns were insanely stupid.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:48 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
I use "science" as a shorthand for that.
I know, and I know why. It’s a cheap rhetorical trick that you try to use because “science” sounds inherently more subjective than “scientists”.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:50 pm to Flats
Who else is going to do the science, Flats? Maybe you trust AI more or we can contract with 100% trustworthy aliens?
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:55 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Lockdowns were insanely stupid.
Power corrupts everyone and everything. Once you give people too much power, they'll destroy themselves and you.
It was a time when the medical field was drunk with power. The nation is paying a price for politicians who bought into their utopian bullshite.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:56 pm to Flats
quote:
We can end up in the exact same situation by listening to “experts”. Now what?
Living in a world with hyperspecialization is like living in a post-Babel world of languages where most human speech is unintelligible even as it's meaningful. No one speaks all the worlds languages so you have to come up with new social solutions for it. We have to come up with new social and political solutions for distrust caused by the hyperspecialization - or else we can tear down the hyperspecialization and live in trad society. But we can probably come up with ways that give people better justifications to trust experts.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 12:58 pm to David_DJS
quote:
Which is why the medical industry made a monumental mistake when it morphed into a political movement. Misleading the public has consequences.
As the medical industry is to COVID so is academia to climate change. There are some parallels.
Both the medical industry and academia have a huge administrative bodies to support.
Both have workers/producers to bring in the money, doctors and scientists respectively.
Both administrative bodies work on behalf of political narratives because if they don't money from the federal government is minimized.
Both administrative bodies force compliance from their workers/producers, i.e., doctors and scientists. Most comply because the reward is great.
Both have doctors and scientists respectively that do not comply with COVID narratives and climate alarmism. Those people are demonized, ostracized, treated as modern day lepers, arrested, etc. by establishment media, politicians and administrators.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 1:00 pm to GumboPot
4 of the top 10 lobbies are medical field related.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 1:04 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
hyperspecialization
Who specializes in making retarded calls about lockdowns for a virus like C19?
quote:
But we can probably come up with ways that give people better justifications to trust experts.
Here are two ways -
1. Make sure “experts” actually know more about the topic than the reasonably educated faction of the general public.
2. Don’t make shite up. That’s an important one.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 1:07 pm to GumboPot
quote:
As the medical industry is to COVID so is academia to climate change. There are some parallels.
Interesting take. I agree. And both result in a near-religious following of useful idiots.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 1:16 pm to TigerDoc
quote:Da fuq? We are entirely capable.
We're not capable of critically analyzing the pandemic. ... anecdotes isn't as reliable as what science is doing.
As anecdotal observations of re-infection came up, "experts" told us that wasn't possible. Then they said "yeah, ok it's possible".
As anecdotal evidence of vaxxed people getting infected came out, "experts" said, un-possible, it's 98% effective!. Then they they said "well, doesn't prevent infection, it only mitigates symptoms."
But yeah... we should totally not be questioning the same "experts", because "science!".
I get the skepticim of anecdotal reporting... but damn, ignoring and dismissing it at this point is as un-critical as one can get.
This post was edited on 1/13/23 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 1/13/23 at 1:19 pm to TigerDoc
quote:I know the talking point. That wasn't what I asked for. I asked you to name whom makes up the consensus talking point you parrot.
Which consensus?
-----
The consensus position is that these vaccines are comparably safe to other vaccines in the short term, that the long-term is not known as they've only been around for 2 years, but that the community's priors are that they're reasonably safe to give with respect to long-term risks which are are usually minimal with vaccines and provided there be ongoing research (which is happening) to monitor them. There is more of a track record for the mRNA tech from previous applications in humans and animals than is usually described around here and there are alternative vaccines with traditional mechanisms for those worried about novel mRNA vaccines in people.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 1:20 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
We are capable of choosing networks of trust based on how well-structured the epistemic community is and learning to defer better
This was defined by you as the CDC and WHO.
Science is about studying and challenging conclusions. It’s never about trust.
Posted on 1/13/23 at 1:21 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
scientific consensus
Posted on 1/13/23 at 1:26 pm to GumboPot
quote:A lot.
As the medical industry is to COVID so is academia to climate change. There are some parallels.
What's funny to me is that people decry "groupthink" as if "groupthink" doesn't exist among the medical community. But everything I've seen from my family's experience is... it not only exists, but thrives.
Ironcially, good friend who's an ID doc is ambivalent about the vax. "Everyone's going to get it" has always been his attitude. He's looking pretty good at this point.
Climate community is next-level though.
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