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re: While Putin doubles down in Ukraine, his gas gambit is failing
Posted on 10/10/22 at 3:58 pm to sta4ever
Posted on 10/10/22 at 3:58 pm to sta4ever
quote:Yeah?
But only one country thought the only acceptable option was a military invasion. I’ll give you a hint as to who it was. It wasn’t the big bad west who thought this.
Well, you must really hate Israel.
Sometimes sound military doctrine dictates striking before the other guy sets his feet though. I suppose that was Russia's POV.
What would we do if Putin successfully transferred nukes to Cuba, and we knew they would be operational within weeks?
Would we preemptively attack?
How about a Central American dictator who worked cooperatively intelligence agencies in other countries, and was suspected of drug trafficking? Would we invade?
3
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:00 pm to NC_Tigah
You and Noam Chomsky would make a great tandem.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:01 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
What would we do if Putin successfully transferred nukes to Cuba, and we knew they would be operational within weeks? Would we preemptively attack? How about a Central American dictator who worked cooperatively intelligence agencies in other countries, and was suspected of drug trafficking? Would we invade?
Are people ever going to stop using 6 decade-old examples of bad US policy as analogies of how to handle current events?
Modern technology makes the Cuba/LA example vis-a-vis Ukraine totally worthless.
NATO gains NOTHING by adding Ukraine that would help it defeat Russia in a conventional or nuclear war (which will never happen anyway). Russia, however, absolutely sees a strategic advantage in possessing Crimea and Ukraine’s Black Sea Coast.
This post was edited on 10/10/22 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:03 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Is China going to sell Europe the Russian hydrocarbons China is importing?
If the price is right - yes.
The CCP will frick over the Chinese people in a heartbeat on a normal day. With their impending financial crunch, they would be more than happy to have the European citizenry put up a shite ton of Euros to help them out.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:03 pm to Indefatigable
Right. We should forget history. It never repeats itself
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:04 pm to LSUBadger
quote:
Right. We should forget history. It never repeats itself
I mean the Russian expansion since 2008 is an example of "history repeating itself", no? Didn't we learn anything about permitting too much USSR influence (like, ahem, Cuba)?
That knife cuts both ways.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:04 pm to LSUBadger
quote:
We should forget history. It never repeats itself
When the Russian’s put more missiles in Cuba, I’m sure it will be relevant. The current situation is not similar.
This post was edited on 10/10/22 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:05 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
When the Russian’s put more missiles in Cuba
Did the USSR ever even put those missiles in Cuba?
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:06 pm to Indefatigable
But Hitler in Munich…….
Should we stop bringing that up as a pretense for stopping a modern dictator?
Should we stop bringing that up as a pretense for stopping a modern dictator?
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:06 pm to Indefatigable
quote:That "line" has been the consistent Russian line for 30yrs. Where are NATO's missiles pointed? Japan? Africa? South America? Vietnam? India? Pakistan? Israel?
with believing the NATO line
None of the above?
Well, golly gee. Why would the country to which all of NATO's resources target feel threatened?
The threat of NATO seems a pretty reasonable "line".
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Did the USSR ever even put those missiles in Cuba?
I believe so. Not as many as they planned to deploy, but IIRC they had several mobile/truck mounted batteries on the island.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:07 pm to LSUBadger
quote:
But Hitler in Munich…….
Who invoked that? Not me.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:08 pm to Indefatigable
You were the one complaining about people using 6 decade old US mistakes
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:09 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
That "line" has been the consistent Russian line for 30yrs. Where are NATO's missiles pointed? Japan? Africa? South America? Vietnam? India? Pakistan? Israel?
None of the above?
Well, golly gee. Why would the country to which all of NATO's resources target feel threatened?
The threat of NATO seems a pretty reasonable "line".
NoamChomsky_Tigah what are your thoughts on Iranian efforts to secure nukes?
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:12 pm to SlowFlowPro
You going full neocon was not something I was expecting
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:12 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
That "line" has been the consistent Russian line for 30yrs.
It wasn’t their line in 1999, or 2004, when every single “concern” they pretend to have now were also present.
quote:
Where are NATO's missiles pointed? Japan? Africa? South America? Vietnam? India? Pakistan? Israel?
Straight up in their silos
same as Russia’s But seriously, NATO’s nukes are in Germany, Belgium, and Italy (and the UK, US, and France). If you have seen anything that indicates we even deployed them to Central Europe (Czech Rep., Poland, etc) please share.
Nothing in Ukraine impacts anything at all about NATO’s nuclear capabilities.
quote:
Why would the country to which all of NATO's resources target feel threatened?
I still can’t believe that you believe that Russia is threatened by NATO in its current state. This invasion is happening precisely because the West is weak, not because it’s a threat.
Had Russia deployed the assets it has in Ukraine on the NATO border, it would have overrun the Baltic states in days. They have effectively no military and only token NATO troops. Poland and the terrain in SE Europe would be the only thing keeping Russia from taking everything east of the Rhine in six weeks. Germany is a joke, and the USAF’s presence amounts to a handful of squadrons continent-wide.
This post was edited on 10/10/22 at 4:18 pm
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:13 pm to LSUBadger
quote:
You were the one complaining about people using 6 decade old US mistakes
My point being that nothing relating to the Cuban Missile crisis or our bullshite in Latin America is relevant to what’s happening in Ukraine.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:14 pm to DallasTiger11
quote:
You going full neocon was not something I was expecting
You need to review your definition of "full neocon" then
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:16 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
My point being that nothing relating to the Cuban Missile crisis or our bullshite in Latin America is relevant to what’s happening in Ukraine.
I've actually been posting for some time about investing in Central America, both to thwart Chinese influence on the US and to make this sort of scenario unlikely. Trade is peace. Trade is development.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 4:18 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I've actually been posting for some time about investing in Central America, both to thwart Chinese influence on the US and to make this sort of scenario unlikely. Trade is peace. Trade is development.
I’m on board with that, but that’s not what I was referring to. I was critiquing the invocation of nuclear proximity in those instances as being inapplicable here.
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