- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: When does the CDC typically put out the data for total number of heart disease deaths?
Posted on 3/14/21 at 12:31 am to longwayfromLA
Posted on 3/14/21 at 12:31 am to longwayfromLA
quote:
And your response to that is to claim that CMS is telling hospitals to falsify positive COVID tests diagnoses and other medical records regarding these patients?
Still playing stupid. You’re not slick.
1
Posted on 3/14/21 at 9:54 am to BeefDawg
quote:
So just as I said, you have no explanation for why the flu miraculously disappeared from record highs to zero at the exact moment hospitals began getting extra money for covid diagnosis.
This is still a doltish attempt by you to change the subject away from what we have been discussing, your claim that hospitals
quote:because you now understand how idiotic it is.
falsify positive testing and diagnosis, as well as ventilator usage and extended stay for folks who may not have needed it.
Anyhow, your new claim contains untruth as well. The Trump administration made the shifts in diagnoses and payments for COVID-19 patients in April 2020. Flu season is traditionally Dec-March, with February being by far the heaviest month. So the extra reimbursement for COVID had been in effect for almost a year before the most recent flu season didn't happen.
It seems like you are loading up a characteristically beef-witted conspiracy theory that links the Trump administration's choice about reimbursing those codes to illegal activity on the part of US hospitals. This is moronic for a lot of reasons, most obviously, as I noted before, the disappearance of flu this season is a worldwide phenomenon. Why would, for instance, Canada or England or Japan or the entire Southern Hemisphere give a shite about CMS reimbursements for respiratory illnesses? Are they getting a kick-back from US hospitals too? Given that flu disappeared around the world this year, it would actually be more evidence of hospital malfeasance if it didn't likewise disappear from US Hospitals' censuses.
But you're correct in saying I don't have a definite answer for why the flu sorta didn't happen on earth this year. There is quite a bit of research underway on this subject with COVID mitigation efforts and COVID outcompeting flu as the early contenders for the reason. But I personally do not know. Unlike you, when I don't know, I'm humble enough to say so. I am not an epidemiologist so this isn't my area of expertise. But I am someone who knows a great deal about how hospitals work, how hospitals make money, and data governance in hospitals. I can confirm that your feeble-minded suggestion that hospitals throughout the COVID period
quote:is still incredibly stupid.
falsify positive testing and diagnosis, as well as ventilator usage and extended stay for folks who may not have needed it.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 9:58 am to the808bass
quote:
The CDC mortality report for 2020 will come out in January of 2022. Not a joke.
6 gorillion is a high number to count to so it will take some time.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 10:00 am to BeefDawg
quote:
Logic says some of those cases were symptomatic covid with asymptotic flu. This is why they were testing positive for flu, but if they had a covid test back then they likely would have been covid positive too.
I am really beginning to think this is what happened to me in January 2020. Tested positive for flu 3 days after NC game and took Xofluza within 24 hours of symptoms, but it didn't really do shite. Completely laid out for about 4 days, then still pretty wiped out fatigue-wise for a couple of weeks after.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 10:01 am to longwayfromLA
quote:
Any understanding of the cost to treat from the hospitals perspective...
...was not found in your post.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 10:10 am to imjustafatkid
quote:
Not sure I've noticed you on the board before, but you're very transparent in this thread. It's clear you're defending the indefensible due to some sort of self interest.
All I've said is that BeefDawg'a conspiracy theory that hospitals
quote:is dumb and I have offered explanations of why this particular kind of fraud is not something hospitals would do.
falsify positive testing and diagnosis, as well as ventilator usage and extended stay for folks who may not have needed it.
If you want to make the case that this kind of fraud is happening, explain to me the typical use case. Walk me through the fraud step-by-step. Tell me who is involved and who is not. Explain to me the timing of the falsification of EHRs. Explain to me how you beat the CDI. How do you manage the various internal and external reporting teams? Just walk me to through it end to end. And then I'll explain the ten ways you'd get caught. You're apparently an expert, let's hear it.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 10:11 am to ChuckO1975
quote:
6 gorillion
Posted on 3/14/21 at 10:17 am to BeefDawg
quote:
2. Notice end of March 2020 (week 13) the moment covid testing rolls out and the gov’t begins paying hospitals a per diem for every covid case, and before we really wore masks or fully implemented social distancing or even locked down, suddenly flu cases fall off a cliff.
Perhaps the "covid" tests also pop positive for flu strains. Just a thought. Probably nothing to it.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 10:19 am to the808bass
quote:
The CDC mortality report for 2020 will come out in January of 2022. Not a joke.
To be clear, that isn't any different than any other year.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 10:23 am to the808bass
quote:
quote:
And your response to that is to claim that CMS is telling hospitals to falsify positive COVID tests diagnoses and other medical records regarding these patients?
Still playing stupid. You’re not slick.
All I have been doing this thread is hammering how stupid BeffDawg's specific particular claim is. So now I am asking you directly, 808:
1. Do you agree with BeefDawg's claim that hospitals are systematically creating covid inpatients by falsifying tests in order to bump the reimbursement?
2. Do you agree with BeefDawg's claim that hospitals are extending inpatient stays for patients who don't need it in order to make money?
Posted on 3/14/21 at 10:41 am to longwayfromLA
quote:How am I changing the subject when my original goddamn post that you engaged included the chart and used it as rationale for the assertion that Hospitals gamed the CARES Act?
This is still a doltish attempt by you to change the subject away from what we have been discussing, your claim that hospitals
And exploiting the CARES act is as easy as someone coming in with chest pains, but then testing positive for covid (even though asymptomatic), and then being coded as a covid patient, but then they get an angioplasty due to a blockage. They go on the covid tally and extra money comes in for them.
The hospital can argue semantics all they want and claim they still deserved the extra money because they had to take extra steps to take care of this patient, and I’m sure you wouldn’t consider this “fraud”, but that’s called gaming the frickin system and everyone who’s intellectually honest knows it.
That all said, I hate to break it to ya buddy, but you already look like a zero credibility clown and a shill apologist. And no amount of convoluting and twisting and demanding your misinterpretation of context is what was really discussed is going to change that.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 11:01 am to udtiger
quote:You are almost assuredly correct.
I am really beginning to think this is what happened to me in January 2020. Tested positive for flu 3 days after NC game and took Xofluza within 24 hours of symptoms, but it didn't really do shite. Completely laid out for about 4 days, then still pretty wiped out fatigue-wise for a couple of weeks after.
Tens of millions of people are walking around with asymptomatic flu right now. Their immune system has simply made the virus impotent. But, if tested, even though they have zero symptoms at all, they could still test positive for the flu.
My wife (who’s a nurse at a hospital), back in Nov 2019, began coughing violently 24/7 and didn’t stop for nearly 10 weeks. Random low grade fevers/headaches/fatigue every few days in between, too. But she continually tested negative for the flu. And nearly same thing happened to over a dozen people she worked with.
Then in Feb 2020 when covid became an actual thing, all of a sudden the lightbulb went off and my wife and I realized that had to be covid. So when they started telling us that patient zero was in Wuhan in January, we immediately knew they were lying.
And then I found that flu tracking chart from NYS Health Dept and the dots seemed to connect. It certainly appears that covid was already here in the US by at least Oct 2019, and likely even sooner.
And the dishonesty about pushing the January patient zero narrative makes the whole thing feel like a setup. Like they let it loose in the spring/summer 2019 so it could infect as many people as possible, so in Feb 2020 they could claim it has a massive infection rate, which then eventually lead to it being necessary for lockdowns and mail-in voting.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 11:04 am to BeefDawg
quote:
How am I changing the subject when my original goddamn post that you engaged included the chart and used it as rationale for the assertion that Hospitals gamed the CARES Act?
Go re-read my response. I said nothing to say about the flu comments and only responded to two quotes in your post with which I had thoughts.
quote:and
Medicare covid patients got approximately a flat +20% subsidy.
Everyone else got $5000 per lab-tested positive clinical diagnosis, $13,000 for confirmed “covid-pneumonia”, and $39,000 if a ventilator was used.
quote:
This reeks of incentive to falsify positive testing and diagnosis, as well as ventilator usage and extended stay for folks who may not have needed it.
and that's all I've been talking about since.
quote:
And exploiting the CARES act is as easy as someone coming in with chest pains, but then testing positive for covid (even though asymptomatic), and then being coded as a covid patient, but then they get an angioplasty due to a blockage. They go on the covid tally and extra money comes in for them.
Right, this is you not understanding how coding works. If you replace the word "COVID" in your quote with "dehydration" the same exact thing happens. That is what complexity coding is all about. Had you written a screen about your disdain for complexity coding or your thinking that COVID for some reason shouldn't be a part of that, I would have written something very different. But that's not what happened. You said that hospitals were faking the positive tests and misrepresenting the care that followed. That's a very different claim. And also quite stupid.
quote:
And no amount of convoluting and twisting and demanding your misinterpretation of context is what was really discussed is going to change that.
It's not convoluting or twisting anything for me to quote your exact words. And while there are folks who want to say means things to me on this thread. You'll note that none of them are signing on to your claim that hospitals
quote:
falsify positive testing and diagnosis, as well as ventilator usage and extended stay for folks who may not have needed it.
Because they know that claim is stupid. More importantly, YOU aren't even defending that claim anymore because you know that claim is stupid.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 11:32 am to longwayfromLA
quote:Why are you insisting on making it so complex?
If you want to make the case that this kind of fraud is happening, explain to me the typical use case. Walk me through the fraud step-by-step. Tell me who is involved and who is not. Explain to me the timing of the falsification of EHRs. Explain to me how you beat the CDI. How do you manage the various internal and external reporting teams? Just walk me to through it end to end. And then I'll explain the ten ways you'd get caught. You're apparently an expert, let's hear it.
I just gave an example. My wife, who’s a nurse of 25 years, said everyone was tested if they were admitted FOR ANYTHING, or simply came in with any amount of covid/flu/respiratory symptoms. And if they tested positive for covid, they went into the covid tally report, which every hospital or clinic began keeping to report numbers to the CDC and CARES Act folks at the HHS.
Someone could get admitted because they were in a car accident. But then if they also tested positive for covid they were added to the tally. This is how the CDC and HHS got their numbers.
This is also how hospitals and clinics got their CARES Act covid dollars too.
There’s nothing complex about it. But the fact that 91% of covid positive people are asymptomatic, many of these hospitals got paid for people who weren’t actually hospitalized for covid.
Same thing with people who came in with numerous co-morbidities or died from co-morbidities while testing positive for covid. They have a stroke or heart attack or complications from cancer or whatever disease, and that’s really why they’re admitted, but if they also test positive for covid (even if possibly asymptomatic), they are put on the covid report and the hospital gets paid extra.
This isn't complex. There’s not a ton of moving parts that require a whole bunch of people conspiring to commit fraud. This is merely gaming the system.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 11:35 am to longwayfromLA
quote:
Typically they'll release a brief and the data tables in the 4th quarter.
Manipulated data and a vague brief is my expectation.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 11:42 am to BigJim
quote:
To be clear, that isn't any different than any other year.
Correct. Government data is late and bad.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 11:44 am to longwayfromLA
quote:
All I have been doing this thread is hammering how stupid BeffDawg's specific particular claim is.
Yeah. That and obfuscating.
Covid is being tracked like no other disease has been tracked. Deaths attributed to Covid are being done in a fashion that they have never been done before. You are dancing around this like a Solid Gold regular.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 11:44 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Manipulated data and a vague brief is my expectation.
The gaslighting will continue until morale improves.
Posted on 3/14/21 at 11:53 am to longwayfromLA
quote:Yes I have been the whole time.
Because they know that claim is stupid. More importantly, YOU aren't even defending that claim anymore because you know that claim is stupid.
Again, your specific interpretation isn’t correct simply because you demand it so.
I consider someone who tests positive for covid but is asymptomatic and treated for symptomatic co-morbidities, but coded as a covid patient “falsifying positive testing and diagnosis”.
Or if someone is on a ventilator because they have lung cancer or acute emphysema or for whatever respiratory illness reason, but they also test positive for covid (but aren’t really sick from covid), some hospitals are being paid extra for that person as a covid positive patient on a ventilator.
You seem to want to demand I meant someone didn’t even test and doctors and staff are just making charts up and fabricating codes out of thin air. But that’s not what I said, that’s just your myopic misinterpretation.
You incorrectly pigeonholed the context from the beginning and have been acting like a dickhead ever since.
This post was edited on 3/14/21 at 11:58 am
Posted on 3/14/21 at 12:53 pm to BeefDawg
quote:
Again, your specific interpretation isn’t correct simply because you demand it so.
I consider someone who tests positive for covid but is asymptomatic and treated for symptomatic co-morbidities, but coded as a covid patient “falsifying positive testing and diagnosis”.
I see. So you consider words to mean the opposite of their plain meanings. Thus, accurately capturing the result of a diagnostic test in the medical record as required by law, somehow in your brain translates into “falsifying positive testing and diagnosis." That makes no sense, but fair enough. I'm still not sure how any of that squares with your claim that hospitals are making
quote:which makes negative sense financially, but whatever. Let's just stay with your first claim.
extended stay for folks who may not have needed it.
It's somehow bad for hospitals to code asymptomatic COVID patients if they are in the hospital for something seemingly unrelated. I keep coming back to this, but you don't understand the purpose of the medical record, which is first and foremost the means by which providers communicate with each other (and their future selves) about patients. If a patient tests positive for COVID (or dehydration), that is relevant medical information that might impact treatment. That patient is necessarily more complex to treat and indeed in many systems the result of that test determines where that patient will be treated physically (many systems segregate COVID patients by ward/ floor/ tower/ building/ hospital, etc.). Once you have given the test and gotten the results, it is illegal and would be fraud for hospitals not put the results in the medical record. Finally, hospitals at this point test all inpatients for COVID and are effectively required to do so. Not doing so at this point is a malpractice and/or negligence lawsuit waiting to happen if there is an outbreak and someone asks, "why is COVID testing not part of your standard of care for all inpatients?" It won't ever get to that, of course, because the commercial Payers, having access to tons of our data in near real-time, would notice that COVID testing isn't part of your standard of care, and you'd have the state and/or Joint Commission in your shite.
So let's recap, Hospitals are effectively required by law to COVID test all inpatients, they are explicitly required by law to record the results in the medical record, CMS guidance determines how that captured information translates into reimbursement and CMS pays hospitals at the statutory rate for the service offered. But that translates to you somehow as hospitals are falsify positive testing and diagnosis. Fine.
quote:
You seem to want to demand I meant someone didn’t even test and doctors and staff are just making charts up and fabricating codes out of thin air. But that’s not what I said, that’s just your myopic misinterpretation.
I do appreciate that you have run so far from your original claim that you're shitting on how ridiculous it is. In the meantime, this u?
quote:
And all they have to do is get a handful of middle-management underlings who desperately want to keep their jobs while enjoying some fat bonuses they were promised to make sure final reports lean a certain direction.
quote:
I mean how deluded and naive do you have to be to think hospitals and doctors are all incorruptible and would never cheat to make money??
Page 3 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News