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re: What is your definition of socialism? And why or why not is it an effective system?
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:19 pm to PacMan01
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:19 pm to PacMan01
quote:
But I think our tax system is mostly fine barring the tax evasion that’s allowed for rich people.
You strike me as someone who just isn’t very well read on these topics. Please read up on this.
The top 5% of this country is paying 60% of the bill
The bottom 50% is contributing a total of about 3%
So when you say evasion, what exactly are they evading? Should the top 5% be paying 90% of the bill?
This post was edited on 1/16/21 at 9:19 pm
1
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:19 pm to PacMan01
quote:
But the incarceration rate, homelessness, and food insecurity stand out. Over 14 million Americans have food insecurity yet the US is one of the most wasteful countries. If capitalism can’t solve these glaring problems, what’s the next step?
No one can solve homelessness. Most homeless in America are mental ill and drug addicts. America does not have a problem of willing and able working homeless people who are homeless for no reason other than the inability to find a job. If you disagree with that please prove me wrong.
Further, capitalism has done more to lift more people out of poverty than any system on earth.
Incarceration rate is ridiculous because in part of the war on drugs but again there is no system that solves crime. Are you under the impression that capitalism causes crime or that socialism eliminates crime?
I’m not sure what you mean by food insecurity but that’s about 4% of the population using your number. So how many of those are due to an outside system and not personal choice.
America is founded on the principle that all men are created equal and anyone can succeed if they work hard. We are equal in ability and opportunity. Not equal in outcome.
Socialism is founded on the idea that everyone should be equal in outcome regardless of work ethic and ability doesn’t matter. The problem with that is while capitalism may be represented as a staircase of classes you can climb either way, socialism is a flat surface you are bound to without hope for
Change.
Capitalism is a system which rewards risk, invention, and hard work. Socialism is a system which punishes work and stifles innovation while denying you the ability to risk yourself for something more.
This post was edited on 1/16/21 at 9:25 pm
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:19 pm to Bass Tiger
Why is that important? Is a person’s knowledge always valued by their net worth?
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:21 pm to PacMan01
quote:
Why is that important? Is a person’s knowledge always valued by their net worth?
Why do socialists always deal only in extremes. Life is full of complexity and context and nuance. Socialists seem to only see the world in black and white.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:23 pm to PacMan01
Because socialism undermines the personal rewards of innovation. Why work hard to bring a dream to fruition, if you won't profit from it? Why do you think China has to steal so many ideas?
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:26 pm to PacMan01
Here is another fact you don’t understand.
The top tax bracket in those Scandinavian countries starts much lower. The top tax bracket of 45-55% taxes starts at the equivalent of 50,000 salary in US dollars.
And to remind you, in the US, the bottom 50% of earners contribute to 3% of tax revenues.
So you see, the reason you don’t have socialized medicine and education like Norway is because poor people aren’t paying as much in taxes as they are in Norway.
I would actually welcome a tax bracket like Norway. I would get crushed but I think it would be a good lesson for a lot of people in this country that aren’t paying a lot of taxes but want a bunch of free stuff. To see them start paying 30-40% taxes, maybe they would start voting different.
So people in the 50k to 100k bracket paying 8% in the US now would be paying 45% in Denmark.
You still think you aren’t getting much for healthcare?
It would be hilarious to watch the melts when they got their first paycheck. I bet most would never vote democrat again.
The top tax bracket in those Scandinavian countries starts much lower. The top tax bracket of 45-55% taxes starts at the equivalent of 50,000 salary in US dollars.
And to remind you, in the US, the bottom 50% of earners contribute to 3% of tax revenues.
So you see, the reason you don’t have socialized medicine and education like Norway is because poor people aren’t paying as much in taxes as they are in Norway.
I would actually welcome a tax bracket like Norway. I would get crushed but I think it would be a good lesson for a lot of people in this country that aren’t paying a lot of taxes but want a bunch of free stuff. To see them start paying 30-40% taxes, maybe they would start voting different.
So people in the 50k to 100k bracket paying 8% in the US now would be paying 45% in Denmark.
You still think you aren’t getting much for healthcare?
It would be hilarious to watch the melts when they got their first paycheck. I bet most would never vote democrat again.
This post was edited on 1/16/21 at 9:38 pm
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:31 pm to PacMan01
quote:
But the incarceration rate, homelessness, and food insecurity stand out. Over 14 million Americans have food insecurity
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:35 pm to PacMan01
quote:
Why is that important? Is a person’s knowledge always valued by their net worth?
This is something poor people with 18 posts say
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:37 pm to PacMan01
quote:
Why is that important? Is a person’s knowledge always valued by their net worth?
You have that option in a capitalist country. Go be a doctor and then do all your work for free. Why do you want to drag down everyone else with you?
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:39 pm to Floki
I start posting graphs and facts and these people scatter like cockroaches when the lights come on.
I thought this was the party of science? Why are they so allergic to presenting facts?
I thought this was the party of science? Why are they so allergic to presenting facts?
This post was edited on 1/16/21 at 9:40 pm
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:40 pm to PacMan01
quote:
USSR industrialized into a nation that rivaled the US in terms of technology in large part due to socialism.
Not true. The USSR was a complete fraud. Once the USSR fell we saw just how bad off that country was. Their outward projection was all propaganda. The reality was it was a shitehole.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:41 pm to PacMan01
quote:
USSR industrialized into a nation that rivaled the US in terms of technology in large part due to socialism.
Read a book, kid
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:46 pm to PacMan01
quote:
USSR industrialized into a nation that rivaled the US in terms of technology in large part due to socialism.
Are we talking about the same USSR who’s diplomats they sent to the US thought we staged grocery stores with full shelves for his visit.
And the same USSR that when they visited London they demanded to “see the man in charge of bread distribution” because it was so efficient. I would have loved to have been the one to tell that dumbass that it was just supply and demand.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:52 pm to PacMan01
It’s not effective because equity is a myth. There will always be someone better and worse than you at something. In theory, it sounds great. In practice, the takers always end up outweighing the producers and the economy inevitably fails.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 9:56 pm to PacMan01
Reuters
Imagine paying 60% income tax and still needing to buy private health insurance because of your shitty government health system
People in this country that think we have it so bad right now are going to get a big wake up call when they start paying a lot more and don’t get anymore in return.
quote:
Cuts to healthcare services, which include everything from free doctor appointments to cancer treatment, have led to the closure of a quarter of state hospitals in the past decade alone.
A recent survey showed that more than half of Danes don’t trust the public health service to offer the right treatment. As a consequence the proportion of the 5.7 millionDanish population taking out private health insurance has jumped to 33% from 4% in 2003, according to trade organization Insurance & Pension Denmark.
Other cuts over the past 10 years have led to the closure of a fifth of state schools, while spending per person above 65 years on services such as care homes, cleaning and rehabilitation after illness has dropped by a quarter.
Since the early 2000s, governments have also pushed through unpopular measures to encourage people to work longer.
They include gradually increasing the retirement age to 73 - the highest in the world - in decades to come from 65 currently, phasing out early retirement benefits and cutting unemployment benefits to two years from four.
Imagine paying 60% income tax and still needing to buy private health insurance because of your shitty government health system
People in this country that think we have it so bad right now are going to get a big wake up call when they start paying a lot more and don’t get anymore in return.
This post was edited on 1/16/21 at 9:58 pm
Posted on 1/16/21 at 10:10 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
It would be hilarious to watch the melts when they got their first paycheck. I bet most would never vote democrat again.
You seem like a very intelligent person. But, your expectation is flawed and I’ll tell you why.
The extreme vast majority of Democrats (and many Republicans do this, too) don’t vote for Democrats because they believe in their policies and political ideals.
They vote Democrat because it’s what they’ve always done, it’s what Daddy did, and it’s what they think is expected of them because of identity politics.
Tribalism. They vote for their tribe and they adopt the policies of their tribe (just like the person who started this thread) because that’s the position of the tribe and because the tribe told them to do so.
If those poor people a d minorities who vote Democrat suddenly had to start paying a 45% tax rate, they’d blame it on the opposing party because their tribe would tell them it is the opposing party’s fault. And they’d continue to vote Democrat.
Every. Single. Time.
Republicans do the same thing. We’ll virtue signal about small government and fiscal responsibility and cry and moan when the opposing party adds to the national debt and doesn’t fix deficit spending.
But, we’ll turn around and vote for the same politicians who do it in the Republican Party because they’re from our tribe (“At least they’re not Democrats,”). We’ll even call them conservatives and justify their nonconservative policies.
Donald Trump did more for black Americans than any President in recent history. They falsely decried him as a “white supremacist,” and voted for a man whose legislation put more of them in prison than any legislation since slavery. They don’t have any actual evidence of Trump being a white supremacist, but they were told he is by their tribe. No need to think critically. And they believed and voted accordingly. For their tribe.
Republicans cried and moaned and bitched about deficits, spending, the debt, the 2nd Amendment, and other conservative issues and took a massive shite on the only 2 or 3 actual conservatives in the Republican Primary in 2016 and got bigger spending and weapons bans..... because only 1 candidate in their estimation (and they were probably right, but that’s beside the point) could beat the candidate who wasn’t from their tribe.
Tribalism. Only a very, very, VERY small portion of the electorate is informed and principled and vote according to those principles and political policy. The rest will vote to keep their tribe in power.
And that, ultimately, has been and will be the ruination of our country. It is THE root of why people like the OP think socialism is a good idea.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 10:21 pm to Chancellor
Unfortunately you are 100% correct
Great post
Great post
Posted on 1/16/21 at 10:33 pm to Chancellor
Tribalism is certainly a thing in politics. Contrary to your assumption, I’m an independent not because of my political leanings. But because I believe the party system is undemocratic in nature. I agree that voter bases from both sides usually get duped by the people they vote in simply because “muh party”. I wish we could do away with parties completely but that’ll never happened in my lifetime.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 10:47 pm to auggie
Is China socialist? The worker’s don't control the means of production. The trade unions are all controlled by the state not the proletariat. North Korea calls themselves Democratic People's Republic of Korea but they are anything but democratic right?
Posted on 1/16/21 at 10:50 pm to Jake88
quote:
Why do so many international patients come here for care?
Because they don't. If they want a great cardiologist, they go to India, for example. Speaking of which, the most common surname for US doctors is "Patel".
quote:
Those rankings are complete vullshit based on leftist ideas of what constitutes a good system.
I could post a long list of reputable sources, but unless it's a dubious source like, say Breitbart, you guys just cover your ears. Fact is that even most Republican politicians acknowledge these things today, but you guys continue to pretend that it's heresy.
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