re: What is the source of our rights?

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This thread reminds

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This thread and all like it remind me of this.

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Not to mention human nature and the history of mankind.

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Only one of us is referencing the entirety of the history of mankind.

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And yes, cavemen did understand that one owned one's own bowl and spear.

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They understood force.

You're engaging in a conflation.

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if nothing like property exists in nature, then neither does theft-yet every living being and dozens of animal species instantly recognize it.

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Again, you're referencing force-based analysis and not this profound conceptuality of rights.

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property isn't a social invention

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Projecting a right built around property is a social invention. Again, you're engaging in conflation. I just don't know if it's intentional (and therefore dishonest) or out of ignorance.

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-it's the moral recognition that what you create or possess isn't up for grabs.

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Morality is also created via society (and very closely linked to the concept of rights).

When humans started living in societies we discovered certain behaviors led to conflict that hurt society, so we created laws to disincentivize people from committing these conflict-creating behaviors. Then we found out by adding religion as another layer of socialization, people followed those rules even stronger. It just so happened that we merged religion and the state in those days.

Wash, rinse, repeat. Societal trial and error over the past 12,000 years. We progress, make mistakes, regress, study what we can remember from history, and then progress again. Over and over and over again. Romans were the best, and we basically just keep redoing Rome over and over again. Rome saved and proliferated the ancient Greek culture the Enlightenment authors you keep referencing stole to create the version of "rights" you keep referencing. And it seems your analysis goes no further than repeating the names of the authors.

You being the All wise lawyer should know what he was referencing in his post. Especially since property is mentioned twice in the bill of rights and 3 times in the Constitution.

As a lawyer who tortures the board over decades with what can only be called pathological obstinance, it makes sense that you would mistake codification for origin. Natural Law isn't something society invents-it's something REASON discovers about human nature, including that what a person creates or possesses isn't, as I said earlier, up for grabs. Call it "force" if you must. but the universal recognition of mine vs. yours is exactly what natural rights describe, not something law magically creates. Law exists to formalize and restrain violations of these prior realities of human nature, not invent them.

Let's use your tortured logic (if we must). Sigh.

Lets take this to it's logical conclusion-If NNatural Rights were just social inventions, then there is no such thing as injustice-only rule breaking-but the fact that people inherently recognize theft, coercion, confiscation and violation even when they are legal is exactly what natural law points to. These moral boundaries don't come from society, THEY ARE DISCOVERED BY REASON IN HUMAN NATURE, and no amount of self-congratulatory wordplay from Lake Charles turns that into "just force".,

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With articles written by biased idiots

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what do you think you are?

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Saves money? Woah woah woah woah woah woah. You said it's all about "revenue generation". And then gave examples of things not related to wages. And now we have curbed away from "revenue generation" (Commissary, prison phone calls, private prison contracts, prison labor, remember?) when AI couldnt show you a single instance of the Department of Corrections actually coming out ahead in this apparent goods producing industry.

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Is it your opinion that the USA has exponentially increased the number of people it incarcerates to the country’s detriment?

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What is something we buy every day thst is inmate produced and is in competition with the private sector?? Anything? What? What is a product being produced that is causing private sector wage suppression.

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Every license plate in Louisiana was made in prison. Are you suggesting a private company should form and produce its own LA license plates? Who would buy them?

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And if they are in prison.. which is coincidentally called "paying their debt to society", they should be doing something. And since they already have free healthcare, free meals, and free housing, they do not require a "livable wage".

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inmates are living large aren’t they?

fricking idiot.

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And I directly rebutted your take with an actual country that turned your entire premise upside down. Then AI didn't do you any favors so you dropped it

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I didnt drop anything. Post whatever you want about BLM and El Salvador. This is not a thread about El Salvador. I literally didn’t post anything about your pet side topic. You are shifting the narrative because all you have to say is “You are using AI to not post about what I want you to discuss.”

I never call people names on here but you are a fricking idiot.

You keep proving my point while insisting you are refuting it

.If Natural Rights are just products of social efficiency, then slavery and the subjugation of women weren't injustices-they were simply functional systems for that time. And yet we know they ARE injustices.

The reason we now condemn them isn't because society randomly evolved, it's because people recognized-often against the law and consensus-that SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WAS BEING DONE. That recognition isn't created by society, it's what allows us to judge society in the first place.It's why we know that we can be randomly hit in the nose, but also know it is unjust and a violation not only of the law, but of the larger NATURAL LAW from which the codified law stems.

If law creates morality than nothing legal can be unjust. Yet we know unjust laws exist-therefore a higher standard (NATURAL LAW) exists. Society doesnt create morality.it either aligns with it or violates it. Reason discovers law, it is not invented by society.

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The right to own private property is not only a NATURAL RIGHT is is likely the most important natural right.

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Private property didn’t always exist. Did the natural right to private property exist before private property did?

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As my bestie, and a woman of rare substance, I'd ask you to think about these terms a little harder,

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if you didn’t have such a way with words, I’d contemplate being offended.

I read everything you wrote about private property. Private property is a social construct. It’s essential for capitalism.

I argue that “natural” rights, and every other kind of right, are determined by the people in charge. They aren’t fixed or universal. They change depending on the context.

The Categorical Imperative is central to my personal philosophy of justice.

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I'm disputing your opinion that the people that are in prison are due to their economic status.

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80-90% of all state criminal defendants are indigent. More than 90% of federal criminal defendants are indigent. Doesn’t that prove my point?

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Again, i find it strange for you to bring Trump up in this, when there is so many other things to debate in this thread.

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A billionaire who didn’t have the face prison time for criminal activity? You don’t think he’s relevant to the discussion?

We can point to the Sacklers or OJ Simpson. There are many other examples.