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Posted on 4/8/18 at 12:48 am to Draconian Sanctions
Ha Ha Ha. TDS is real.
It is amazing how people lose all grasp of common sense when it comes DJT. But that is TDS.
As I said on Page 4, please explain how one of the largest tax Decreases in history combined with the slashing of hundreds if not thousands of Federal Regulations created and enforced by unelected bureaucrats has anything to do with Fascism?
You can't.
It is amazing how people lose all grasp of common sense when it comes DJT. But that is TDS.
As I said on Page 4, please explain how one of the largest tax Decreases in history combined with the slashing of hundreds if not thousands of Federal Regulations created and enforced by unelected bureaucrats has anything to do with Fascism?
You can't.
Posted on 4/8/18 at 1:22 am to Stingray
Imagine a boot—stamping on a human face...forever. (Orwell.)
Posted on 4/8/18 at 1:35 am to themunch
quote:
So where are we seeing this all day every day?
Uh, have you not seen Antifa running through the streets beating the crap out of people for voicing the wrong opinion?
How about college campuses refusing to give Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder, Owen Benjamin, Milo, Jordan Peterson, etc., etc., etc. a platform to speak on their college campuses despite hundreds (if not thousands) of students on each of those campuses wanting to hear their opinion?
No doubt facism cuts both ways, but as it stands now its mainly a problem on the left. Pew did a poll a few months ago and it showed that Hillary voters were twice as likely to disown a friend or family member if they found out that they voted for Trump. And it wasn't like a 2% vs 4% difference (as in it was super rare either way), it was like a 20-25% vs 45-50%. While 20-25% isn't great, its also not half.
This post was edited on 4/8/18 at 1:48 am
Posted on 4/8/18 at 1:42 am to Stingray
quote:
Please expound why.
Why what? Why do I view that as the single defining characteristic of Fascism?
Because I think authoritarianism informs much of the Fascist platform. They don't like civil liberties, that's why there's such a huge push for "hate speech laws".
quote:
And, is the above associated with any other political form?
Yes, I think there are other political labels people use that are often associated with Fascism. It's a bit like a venn diagram, there are so many political labels to describe so many different political stances there's a decent bit of overlap.
Posted on 4/8/18 at 6:47 am to rmnldr
So far this is the best answer:
But drop nationalist, as that is implied in jingoistic.
Jingoistic:
characterized by extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy.
Authoritarian:
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
State corporatism.
And here I think we get to the big problem with defining Fascism, as this is a complex term and field. Certainly a lot of levels and degrees of government involvement with business.....at what point does that involvement become Fascism?
quote:
Nationalistic, jingoistic, authoritarian, state-corporatism
But drop nationalist, as that is implied in jingoistic.
Jingoistic:
characterized by extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy.
Authoritarian:
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
State corporatism.
And here I think we get to the big problem with defining Fascism, as this is a complex term and field. Certainly a lot of levels and degrees of government involvement with business.....at what point does that involvement become Fascism?
Posted on 4/8/18 at 6:54 am to DavidTheGnome
I chuckle whenever I see libertarianism and fascism next to each other; whoever makes those is clueless.
Posted on 4/8/18 at 7:04 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Twitter's CEO loves this article about driving conservatives from public life and turning the rest of the country into California in the "new civil war." Literally what it's about
This is a single defining characteristic of Fascism.
This post was edited on 4/8/18 at 7:05 am
Posted on 4/8/18 at 7:23 am to Stingray
quote:
What makes Fascism, Fascism?
Hypernational, imperial-like expansion.
Posted on 4/8/18 at 7:51 am to cahoots
quote:
With Obamacare, there is a still a private market that co-exists. Most Americans aren't on obamacare
The private market exists in name only.
Posted on 4/8/18 at 8:30 am to Ebbandflow
quote:
quote:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
quote:
It's absolutely ridiculous that you got so many downvotes considering that has the most correct answer. But of course the poliboard idiot, right-wing contingent wants to just say muh socialism and call it a day.
People get upset when they realize they accidentally are in support of facism, and were too blind by hated to see it on their own.
Posted on 4/8/18 at 8:39 am to TigerDoc
The person who wrote this probably has no idea who came up with philosophy or its dictates.
Roots of facism
Roots of facism
Posted on 4/8/18 at 8:49 am to TigerDoc
quote:
Britt criteria are as good as I’ve seen:
The whole problem with this definition is it is dependent upon the government to invoke fascism. Fascism can be propagated by insurrection, as in ANTIFA. When a movement uses rampant diminishment of freedoms, as in not allowing basic freedom of speech, and uses group violence to do so, it is using fascist technique. A nongovernmental movement in our time using fascist techniques is fascism defined. Until the left stops with its political correctness, which in many cases is fascist technique, suppression of public speakers who are nonviolently expressing their point of view, the Left should be considered fascist in its nature.
Posted on 4/8/18 at 9:21 am to Stingray
quote:
What is the single defining characteristic of Fascism?
Nationalism.
Contrast that with Communism where there is no state.
That's one of the main reasons for the tension between the two. The goal of Communism is stateless anarchy - the Worker' Utopia. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" as a natural way of distributing goods and services. There are no national, ethnic or religious distinctions.
I know many on here want to point to the totalitarian regimes of the 'dictatorships of the proletariat' as Communism, but that was theorized as only a step towards Communism. When all the nations have been dissolved, then there would be stateless Communism.
Fascism is a nationalistic corporate - government alliance to promote the interests of the nation state.
This post was edited on 4/8/18 at 9:30 am
Posted on 4/8/18 at 10:01 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
I know many on here want to point to the totalitarian regimes of the 'dictatorships of the proletariat' as Communism, but that was theorized as only a step towards Communism. When all the nations have been dissolved, then there would be stateless Communism
While accurate from a theoretical standpoint, at what point do we define Communism according to its reality as opposed to its unobtainable goal?
If my plan to fix traffic infrastructure in BR was to "teach" people to fly by repeatedly convincing them to jump off the MS River Bridge until someone starts flying, at what point to I become a murder and not an innovator?
Posted on 4/8/18 at 11:44 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
Fascism is a nationalistic corporate - government alliance to promote the interests of the nation state.
And there's a big difference between nationalism and patriotism. Some people fail to grasp that concept.
Posted on 4/8/18 at 11:47 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
While accurate from a theoretical standpoint, at what point do we define Communism according to its reality as opposed to its unobtainable goal?
In reality, Communism has never existed.
If you're building a house, and get the frame up, but never finish the roof, can we call it a house? Sure, but it wouldn't be technically accurate. I can imagine a newlywed couple saying something like, "Let's go over to the house" to refer to the construction site of the home they've planned for themselves.
In the context of defining terms technically, such as "What is Fascism", I believe it's important to make the distinction. In the typical poo-flinging contests that go on on the board, I'm okay with the Right accusing the Left of being 'communists!', and the Left accusing the Right of being 'Fascists!' because there does seem to be a differentiation between management and labor between fascism and communism that corresponds loosely with our Right/Left dichotomy.
That said, when the goal of Communism is a stateless anarchy, the transition condition of the dictatorship of the proletariat is qualitatively different from the ultimate goal, and not just an incremental change.
quote:
If my plan to fix traffic infrastructure in BR was to "teach" people to fly by repeatedly convincing them to jump off the MS River Bridge until someone starts flying, at what point to I become a murder and not an innovator?
I'm not sure I understand how that fits in here, but I would say that you would never be considered a murderer if all you're doing is "convincing" people to kill themselves. At least I would never vote to convict if I was on your jury.
Posted on 4/8/18 at 11:59 am to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
In the context of defining terms technically, such as "What is Fascism", I believe it's important to make the distinction. In the typical poo-flinging contests that go on on the board, I'm okay with the Right accusing the Left of being 'communists!', and the Left accusing the Right of being 'Fascists!' because there does seem to be a differentiation between management and labor between fascism and communism that corresponds loosely with our Right/Left dichotomy.
All the "isms" are descended from Karl Marx and Communism
quote:
The father of fascism is a man named Giovanni Gentile.
Born in 1875, Gentile was one of the world’s most influential philosophers in the first half of the 20th century. Inspired by his mentor Karl Marx, Gentile believed that the state should resemble a family. This remains a common leftist theme. During the 1984 convention of the Democratic Party, the governor of New York, Mario Cuomo, likened America to “an extended family where, through the government, people all take care of each other.” Thirty years later, the slogan of the 2012 Democratic Party convention was, “The government is the only thing we all belong to.”
Gentile considered fascism to be the most workable form of socialism. “Fascism mobilizes people by appealing to their national identity as well as their class,” explains D’Souza. “Fascists are socialists with a national identity.”
Gentile also believed all private action should be oriented to serve society, with no distinction between private interest and public interest. He considered the state to be the administrative arm of society, so society and all its members were to submit to the state in everything.
Italian fascist dictator, Benito Mussolini, simply paraphrased Gentile when he wrote in his Dottrina del Fascismo, one of the doctrinal statements of early fascism, “All is in the state and nothing human exists or has value outside the state.”
Just like Gentile, Democratic progressives champion a centralized state, which explains the recent expansion of state control in the private sectors of healthcare, banking, education and energy. “Leftists can’t acknowledge their man, Gentile, because that would undermine their attempt to bind conservatism to fascism,” says D’Souza.
Conservatives support small government in order to empower individual liberties, but the left wants the resources of individuals and industries to service the state. “To acknowledge Gentile is to acknowledge that fascism bears a deep kinship to the ideology of today’s left. So, they will keep Gentile where they’ve got him:
Posted on 4/8/18 at 12:06 pm to CCTider
The media was quick to paint patriots as nationalists.
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