re: What is the income range for "middle class" per the board?

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lifestyle issue. I like neighborhoods with character where i can walk places and be part of the community. I dont like "drive only" neighborhoods from a lifestyle perspective.

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A lot of burbs are just extensions of the city itself

So. I just Zillowed
Under 500K
3BR
Min 1200SF
In NYC

And got 551 listings.

Only in NYC limits.

Its also driving up the prices in the city where we like to live.

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So. I just Zillowed
Under 500K
3BR
Min 1200SF
In NYC

And got 551 listings.

Only in NYC limits.

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Couple of giant caveats...

How many have neighborhoods with bars on the windows?

How many have $1000+ common charges?

How many need $100k+ worth of work to get a certificate of occupancy?

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Also, that given equal demand a vendor will always maximize profit margin, which for nicer, bigger houses is higher than smaller ones.

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This is not actually an economic given.

If I sell widgets and I can make basic, medium and advanced ones.

I sell in a market that largely can afford basic, slightly can afford medium and a few can afford advanced.

In THAT market, it is highly unlikely that my margins will be higher on the advanced widgets. In fact, it's quite likely that my best margins will be on the basic widgets.

Just sayin.........

I should read your post better.

But, frankly, there's no such thing as a housing market with equal demand across the price spectrum so I missed that element or your post

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You linked a time range from after the market normalized again. Normalized at the higher prices that is...

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You cited 4 yrs, which is amidst recovery from the worst housing slump since the Great Depression. Put another way, nationally, home prices remain 10% lower than their highs in 2006.

Here is the actual post-2006 picture in New Orleans:

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What is your point exactly? My point is pretty clear.

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Let's look at facts, shall we?

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The Census Bureau recently released its annual report on “Characteristics of New Housing” for 2014, which includes data on the average and median size of new homes and those data are displayed in the top chart above. Here are some details:

1. In 2014, the average size of new houses built increased to an all-time high of 2,690 square feet (see dark blue line in top chart), and the median size new home set a new record of 2,506 square feet (see light blue line in chart). Over the last 40 years, the average home has increased in size by more than 1,000 square feet, from an average size of 1,660 square feet in 1973 (earliest year available from Census) to 2,690 square feet last year. Likewise, the median-size home has increased in size by almost 1,000 square feet, from 1,525 square feet in 1973 to 2,506 last year. In percentage terms, the average home size has increased by 62% since 1973, while the median home size increased by 64%.

2. While the average size of a new US home has increased over the last 40 years, the average household size has been declining over that period, from 3.01 persons per household on average in 1973 to a new record low of 2.54 persons per household in the last two years (2013 and 2014), a reduction of almost one-half person per household over the last 40 years (see brown line in top chart).

LINK

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The National Association of Realtors’s monthly measure of housing affordability (based on the median price for existing-homes, median family income, and the current fixed rate for 30-year mortgages) displayed in the chart above also shows that purchasing a home today (new or existing) is more affordable today than the average affordability measure of 124 over the last 34 years. The current affordability index for April was 165, which means that a family earning the median annual income of $66,483 would have 165% of the qualifying income of $40,320 required to purchase the median-price home of $221,200 with a 20% down payment and a mortgage for the $176,960 balance, financed for 30-years at the 3.95% current mortgage rate. Housing affordability has averaged 124 over the last 41 years (median income was 124% of qualifying income), and was below 100 in the first part of the 1980s. Americans enjoy housing affordability today that is well above average for the post-1980 period, and twice as affordable as in the early 1980s.

Bottom Line: We hear all the time about stagnating household incomes, the decline of the middle class, rising income inequality, and lots of other narratives of gloom and doom for Americans. But when it comes to the new homes that Americans are buying and living in, we see a much brighter picture of life in the US. The new homes that today’s generation of homeowners are buying are larger by 1,000 square feet compared to the average new homes our parents or grandparents might have purchased in 1973, and have almost double the living space today adjusted for household size compared to 40 years ago.

And of course today’s new homes, compared to those built in the past, are much more energy-efficient; they come with better, bigger and more bathrooms, closets, and garages; they’re equipped with better and more home appliances; and they almost all include modern features like central air conditioning today that might have been expensive options in previous decades like the 1970s. Americans are paying about 62% more today for a median-priced new home on an inflation-adjusted basis compared to 1973, largely because the size of the median home has increased by more than 64%. So on an inflation-adjusted basis, we’re actually paying slightly less today for a new home on a per square-foot basis than in 1973. Overall, the increasing size, improving quality, and relative affordability of new (and existing) homes today means that living standards continue to gradually, but consistently, improve year after year for most Americans.

LINK

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BTW: None of which addresses other quality issues. i.e., Granite Counters instead of Formica, or Tile instead of Linoleum, or Solid Brass/Nickel instead of chrome plating, or Finished 2 car garages instead of unfinished one-car garages, etc.

50 year high by 2016. Get out...

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No, but it should match the income bar graph I posted on the first page. I think we agree it doesnt.

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why would it do that? I can actually can't imagine any economic scenario where that would be the case

You might expect it to match the income bar graph if the demographics of every bar were the same. But they're not. Some of the bars have young people who weren't that interested in a new home yet. Some of the bars have more people with children than others. I could go on. But the point is that no I would not expect demand to mirror the income bars. Not even close really. Does demand for high-end gaming computer consoles mirror income bars?