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Started By
Message
re: What is the income range for "middle class" per the board?
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:20 pm to Taxing Authority
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:20 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Look Shorty, you don’t get it. No body buys those houses anymore. All the demand for them drove the prices up too high
All I know is, I want to start a business selling widgets........and, then once I start it...........I'm going to, with zero economic drivers whatsoever, start increasing the price of my widgets.
And, when I do so, I fully expect to not only keep selling my widgets....but INCREASE volume on my sales!!!
I'm gonna be friggin rich!
0
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:21 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:By your logic that means that there are entire cities where no "middle class" person could live...
The fact that you’re touting $400-$500k houses as “middle class family could have afforded” is kinda proving everyone’s point
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:22 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:Well, I mean. By definition, the information provided not by TA or me, but by the opposite side, indicates this isn't the case.
So whats the point of stating this if its not feasible for someone to live in a fictional home?
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:23 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Thats existing houses, which has zero effect on average sizes over time.
Wat?
Last I checked the quantity of houses lived in was directly attributable to the number of houses built.
If baby boomers are living in these houses longer, wouldnt that move the market center of mass toward newer bigger homes?
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:23 pm to Tigerdev
quote:Its why suburbs exist
By your logic that means that there are entire cities where no "middle class" person could live...
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:23 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
Its why suburbs exist
Shhhhh
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:24 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
quote:
I guess there are some overpasses available for free too .
ya sure. 1,500 sf house is about the same as living under an overpass....
I think he's trying to be pretentious.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:26 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Thats existing houses, which has zero effect on average sizes over time.
quote:good grief.
Last I checked the quantity of houses lived in was directly attributable to the number of houses built.
If zero houses are built, does the average size...
A/ go down
B/ stay the same
C/ go up
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:26 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I think he's trying to be pretentious.
Just equally unrealistic.
Like I said, what I see here in NYC is often not relevant to "flyover country" (as HHATW stated).
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:27 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
If zero houses are built, does the average size...
A/ go down
B/ stay the same
C/ go up
Now you're just ignoring me.
Do you think that new construction homes are the only ones on the market?
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:28 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:YES!! But only if people have been buying newer and bigger homes.
If baby boomers are living in these houses longer, wouldnt that move the market center of mass toward newer bigger homes?
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:31 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:While elegantly proving your point about how some won’t live in such a home.
I think he's trying to be pretentious.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:32 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Just equally unrealistic.
Like I said, what I see here in NYC is often not relevant to "flyover country" (as HHATW stated).
Look man, if you're basing this conversation on NYC or SF, then you really shouldn't be in the discussion.
It's been mentioned many times a few select areas have a very different market
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:32 pm to Taxing Authority
This might also be a great time to point out an element of the market that no one has brought up.
Another driver against smaller homes is that many people, especially younger people, simply don't want mortgages.
Younger people, as is evidenced by tons of studies, are FAR more transient and are far more interested in being transient than they used to be.
ALSO, younger people are willfully avoiding buying cars and choosing to live IN cities more frequently.
Many of them would rather rent a tiny place IN the city than buy a small home in the burbs at a similar monthly cost.
This is but one example of how ACTUAL MARKETS dictate what gets built.
30 years ago.......people were willingly buying 1200sf homes a 60 minute commute from their homes. Hell, my parents bought a 1200 sf home in 1980 and my dad commuted AT LEAST 60 minutes. Which, frankly, was asinine.
FAR MORE of those people are deciding that isn't worth it. So, they save until a later point when they can get what they want(if they ever leave the city at all).
And we haven't even gotten in to marriage rates today among young people!
Ya don't suppose those homes are getting built less because there's a lower rate of 24 year old married couples looking for their starter homes do ya?
Another driver against smaller homes is that many people, especially younger people, simply don't want mortgages.
Younger people, as is evidenced by tons of studies, are FAR more transient and are far more interested in being transient than they used to be.
ALSO, younger people are willfully avoiding buying cars and choosing to live IN cities more frequently.
Many of them would rather rent a tiny place IN the city than buy a small home in the burbs at a similar monthly cost.
This is but one example of how ACTUAL MARKETS dictate what gets built.
30 years ago.......people were willingly buying 1200sf homes a 60 minute commute from their homes. Hell, my parents bought a 1200 sf home in 1980 and my dad commuted AT LEAST 60 minutes. Which, frankly, was asinine.
FAR MORE of those people are deciding that isn't worth it. So, they save until a later point when they can get what they want(if they ever leave the city at all).
And we haven't even gotten in to marriage rates today among young people!
Ya don't suppose those homes are getting built less because there's a lower rate of 24 year old married couples looking for their starter homes do ya?
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 3:35 pm
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:33 pm to Taxing Authority
Well apparently I'm upper class by you guy's standards. Ill take it
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:34 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
YES!! But only if people have been buying newer and bigger homes.
So lets play the logic game.
Follow me here. If the center of gravity for a market is trending toward newer bigger homes, and if the likewise fewer smaller, cheaper, and older homes are fewer and not easily available...
How are homebuyers supposed to find these homes to reduce the amount of amenities and lower their cost of living?
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:34 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Its not just SF and NYC. NOLA doesnt have near that economy and it has seen steep rises in housing prices while income and employment are basically the same.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:36 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
Its not just SF and NYC. NOLA doesnt have near that economy and it has seen steep rises in housing prices while income and employment are basically the same.
There are affordable places in the NOLA area though.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:36 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:What drove that?
Follow me here. If the center of gravity for a market is trending toward newer bigger homes, and if the likewise fewer smaller, cheaper, and older homes are fewer and not easily available...
quote:Are we talking about a significant group of people? Cause, if we're talking about a significant group of people, then you have one very odd market where people who CAN sell a thing can see a huge market for that thing.....and don't provide it.
How are homebuyers supposed to find these homes to reduce the amount of amenities and lower their cost of living?
Posted on 9/27/17 at 3:39 pm to RogerTheShrubber
True enough. I hate the suburbs so i never enter it into my calculus.
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 3:40 pm
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