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Started By
Message
"We shouldnt allow those with mental illnesses to purchase firearms"
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:09 pm
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:09 pm
I hear this a bunch now. Even Dana Loesch expressed this at the CNN town hall. And at first it seems like an easy concession to make in this debate. But when you think about it....the frick? A mental illness precludes you from your constitutional rights? What other constitutional rights do you lose when you are suffering from a mental illness? Should crazy people not get a fair trial? have the freedom of speech? I get the idea behind it but explain why you get to decide who gets to enjoy freedom?
I believe that if someone is deemed so unstable and such a danger to society that they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, then the solution isnt to arbitrarily take away their rights but to commit them to a psych ward.
This is a dangerous slope. And we are already halfway down it. We've already decided that felons dont get to keep their rights (I believe they should)
There are really, deep down only 2 types of people in the gun debate. Those that think all firearms should be legal and those that think all firearms should be illegal. Both sides just usually know they cant get away from the table without giving something up and that subconsciously accounts for every variation of "opinion" in between.
Add this to the many admittedly extreme takes that being a constitutional absolutist makes me hold alongside the piping hot take that given the available resources private citizens should be allowed to posses any weapon the government can posses including nukes
I believe that if someone is deemed so unstable and such a danger to society that they shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, then the solution isnt to arbitrarily take away their rights but to commit them to a psych ward.
This is a dangerous slope. And we are already halfway down it. We've already decided that felons dont get to keep their rights (I believe they should)
There are really, deep down only 2 types of people in the gun debate. Those that think all firearms should be legal and those that think all firearms should be illegal. Both sides just usually know they cant get away from the table without giving something up and that subconsciously accounts for every variation of "opinion" in between.
Add this to the many admittedly extreme takes that being a constitutional absolutist makes me hold alongside the piping hot take that given the available resources private citizens should be allowed to posses any weapon the government can posses including nukes
This post was edited on 2/27/18 at 7:09 pm
14
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:10 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
We've already decided that felons dont get to keep their rights (I believe they should)
Especially non-violent offenders.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:12 pm to Hester Carries
quote:
There are really, deep down only 2 types of people in the gun debate. Those that think all firearms should be legal and those that think all firearms should be illegal.
I don’t think that’s accurate though.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:12 pm to Hester Carries
Define mental illness.
This isn't a slippery slope, it's running off a goddamned cliff.
This isn't a slippery slope, it's running off a goddamned cliff.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:12 pm to Hester Carries
It makes quite a lot of sense on the surface, but as always, the slippery slope leads to questions.
How easy would it be for someone to be arbitrarily labeled as mentally ill in order to deprive them of access to firearms?
How easy would it be for someone to be arbitrarily labeled as mentally ill in order to deprive them of access to firearms?
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:14 pm to HempHead
quote:
How easy would it be for someone to be arbitrarily labeled as mentally ill in order to deprive them of access to firearms?
That's the best question to ask when discussing this.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:15 pm to Hester Carries
here is what i ask when people bring this up.
what mental illnesses are grounds for taking away their right to own firearms?
who determines if someone is mentally sane or not?
what is the appeals process?
how long should your rights be gone? mental health is fluid. just because im depressed today doesnt mean i will be in 6 months.
do you think that punishing people for seeking help for their mental health issues will lead to more people seeking help, or more people saying frick it and dealing with it on their own?
people LIE. how are you going to ensure that the person having their mental health screened are going to be completely honest about their frame of mind?
ive YET to find a single person that can answer these questions.
what mental illnesses are grounds for taking away their right to own firearms?
who determines if someone is mentally sane or not?
what is the appeals process?
how long should your rights be gone? mental health is fluid. just because im depressed today doesnt mean i will be in 6 months.
do you think that punishing people for seeking help for their mental health issues will lead to more people seeking help, or more people saying frick it and dealing with it on their own?
people LIE. how are you going to ensure that the person having their mental health screened are going to be completely honest about their frame of mind?
ive YET to find a single person that can answer these questions.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:16 pm to HempHead
quote:
How easy would it be for someone to be arbitrarily labeled as mentally ill in order to deprive them of access to firearms?
But if you think someone is so crazy that if you give them a gun they will kill everyone, the solution isnt to not sell them a gun...its to put them in a padded cell with a doctor.
If you are an American walking around in the world...the constitution applies to you.
If this kid needed to be in a hospital thats one conversation that Im not qualified to be a part of, but he wasnt and therefor you cant say "he shouldnt have been allowed to purchase a firearm"
Its similar to a killer who goes free on a murder charge. Should they be in jail? yes...do we get to lock them away or take away their freedom because? no.
This post was edited on 2/27/18 at 7:18 pm
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:16 pm to Aristo
It would be much, much more concerning, too, if psychiatrists were employees of the government, and were able to have access to information regarding a patient - like what organizations he donates to, his political affiliation, or the like.
This exact tactic, though not for the purpose of restricting purchase of firearms, was utilized in the Soviet Union to imprison dissidents.
This exact tactic, though not for the purpose of restricting purchase of firearms, was utilized in the Soviet Union to imprison dissidents.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:17 pm to Hester Carries
quote:Sooooo.... democrats are to be disarmed? That's gonna make it a little tougher for them to come take our guns...
We shouldn't allow those with mental illnesses to purchase firearms
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:18 pm to Hester Carries
If you think a paranoid schizophrenic should be allowed to buy a firearm, you're out of your mind.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:19 pm to HempHead
quote:
much more concerning, too, if psychiatrists were employees of the government,
Especially with the push for government run healthcare.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:20 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
If you think a paranoid schizophrenic should be allowed to buy a firearm, you're out of your mind.
care to answer my questions up there?
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:20 pm to Aristo
Bingo.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:20 pm to MrLarson
quote:
This isn't a slippery slope, it's running off a goddamned cliff.
Yep. Gonna be a lot of folks giving up their antidepressant if it means losing their rights.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:21 pm to beerJeep
quote:
care to answer my questions up there?
I'll get to them later since I'm mobile, but if you think the microwave is talking to you, I really don't want you to be anywhere near a firearm.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:23 pm to MrLarson
quote:
Define mental illness.
In time they will change the definition of "mental illness" so it will include more people, particularly those people who don't believe liberal bullshite.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:23 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
If you think a paranoid schizophrenic should be allowed to buy a firearm, you're out of your mind.
What other constitutional rights do they as free people forfeit?
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:24 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I'll get to them later since I'm mobile,
quote:
but if you think the microwave is talking to you, I really don't want you to be anywhere near a firearm.
i dont want you anywhere outside of a mental institute if thats the case..... but we both know that far far far far lesser "mental issues" will be targeted as grounds for taking away someones rights, such as depression, not just those who should be institutionalized.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 7:24 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I'll get to them later since I'm mobile, but if you think the microwave is talking to you, I really don't want you to be anywhere near a firearm.
I dont want a lot of people to have a gun. But thats not my decision.
What if you think God is talking to you? Which god? Does it matter.
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