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re: Trump’s belief that men can be women is an automatic disqualifier
Posted on 6/29/23 at 5:04 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 6/29/23 at 5:04 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
You make it sound like Marcion had the true text of the NT and that his critics created something else to contradict him.
Don’t take my word on it. Read from scholarship. Like I said Marcion had some of the authentic Pauline letters and an early version of a gospel (without a nativity story) of what later became “Luke”, and a commentary called Antithesis. Before Marcion there was no canon and there was no “Bible” but rather a bunch of loose scrolls and individual letters and individual gospel accounts.
The Roman Christians that became “orthodox” had to counter Marcion with their own canon and their own version of the Pauline letters and their own versions of the multitude of gospels which they had to pair down to 4 and reject the others.
Take Tertullian’s words for it. He claimed Marcion was the first to separate the Old Testament from the New Testament. He wrote a series of 5 books against Marcionite Christianity. In fact the early Roman Church fathers were pissed because in Asia Minor and the Levant, “Christian” meant Marcionite Christianity. Non marcionism was referred with reference to the leader (eg “Justinianism”). Marcion was a wealthy merchant who spread his brand far and wide and some say eclipsed what became “orthodox” for a couple hundred years.
The Roman and Greek Orthodox sect persecuted Marcionites, burned their books, and took their version of the Bible and added more fake Pauline epistles and Revelation and some letters from Peter (which are probably also not genuine) etc.
Marcion wasn’t a Gnostic. And apparently you know no history.
As for the rest of your comments, have fun with your mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance, denying basic scientific facts, denying history, and believing the earth is 6,000 years old and humans and dinosaurs coexisted.
I have no doubt if you caught god pissing on your shoe and he told you it was rain, you’d believe him.
1
Posted on 6/29/23 at 7:18 pm to Jon Ham
y'all really need to keep hammering this
Posted on 6/30/23 at 12:11 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:Oh, I won’t. You have done nothing but lie and twist words to align your perverted God-hating perspective.
Don’t take my word on it.
quote:It doesn’t matter what is claimed that he had. You are still ignoring how the Bible was transmitted in history. Marcion edited and removed much of the NT. He edited Luke to agree with his own beliefs and only kept the Pauline epistles because of his false view of the nature of the old and new covenants and thought Paul (with a little editorial help by Marcion) had it right while Peter and John and the other disciples misunderstood Jesus’ teachings.
Read from scholarship. Like I said Marcion had some of the authentic Pauline letters and an early version of a gospel (without a nativity story) of what later became “Luke”, and a commentary called Antithesis.
quote:The “canon” was already closed by the time of Marcion. The canon was whatever God has inspired. Not having a list of the canonical books doesn’t mean that the canon, itself, didn’t exist until Marcion. Instead, his perversion of the text caused the orthodox Church to define the list, as heretics usually caused the Church to clarify its own teachings.
Before Marcion there was no canon and there was no “Bible” but rather a bunch of loose scrolls and individual letters and individual gospel accounts.
quote:The Church didn’t produce its own version of anything. It responded to Marcion by reviewing what books were accepted by the churches at large and debated what was and wasn’t Scripture based on the writings that were available. Marcion knew those writings, too, and rejected most of them because they didn’t comport with his view of Christ and the OT God.
The Roman Christians that became “orthodox” had to counter Marcion with their own canon and their own version of the Pauline letters and their own versions of the multitude of gospels which they had to pair down to 4 and reject the others.
quote:Marcion was a heretic that denied the humanity of Christ and rejected the accepted (by the Church because of the Scriptures) the view of the OT and the God of the OT being compatible with Jesus and the NT.
Take Tertullian’s words for it. He claimed Marcion was the first to separate the Old Testament from the New Testament. He wrote a series of 5 books against Marcionite Christianity. In fact the early Roman Church fathers were pissed because in Asia Minor and the Levant, “Christian” meant Marcionite Christianity. Non marcionism was referred with reference to the leader (eg “Justinianism”). Marcion was a wealthy merchant who spread his brand far and wide and some say eclipsed what became “orthodox” for a couple hundred years.
quote:Its comical to me that you will accept any and every dissenting voice from orthodox Christianity as the gospel truth (pun intended) without actually bothering to study the things you are arguing about. You speak as someone wholly ignorant of the transmission of the Bible and are happy to side with the minority report in spite of its blatant contradictions to the historical context of its day. The Marcionites were heretics that spread a false gospel about a false god, doing much of what you’ve been doing in spreading their ignorance of the Old Testament in particular to fit with their desire for for a god that fits with their own version of what he ought to be.
The Roman and Greek Orthodox sect persecuted Marcionites, burned their books, and took their version of the Bible and added more fake Pauline epistles and Revelation and some letters from Peter (which are probably also not genuine) etc.
quote:Oh I’m familiar with what he believed. He was a Docetist, which became a central feature of Gnosticism. He wasn’t a gnostic, per se, but had some overlapping beliefs with the Gnostics.
Marcion wasn’t a Gnostic. And apparently you know no history.
quote:You want to trash the Bible without understanding the Bible. You pretend to be an intellectual who is curing us religionists of our ignorance when it is you a who remain willfully ignorant. You are the one rejecting the truth and accepting a lie.
As for the rest of your comments, have fun with your mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance, denying basic scientific facts, denying history, and believing the earth is 6,000 years old and humans and dinosaurs coexisted.
quote:God doesn’t lie.
I have no doubt if you caught god pissing on your shoe and he told you it was rain, you’d believe him.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 12:15 am to exiledhogfan
quote:
y'all really need to keep hammering this
There’s some sort of Sunday School Showdown happening in this thread that keeps bumping it.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 12:52 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
God doesn’t lie.
Since you deny science, history, and archeology, the only way to argue with an ignoramus such as yourself is to quote scripture, which you believe to be truthful even when it contradicts itself.
God doesn’t lie?
quote:
Then I said, “Ah, Lord GOD, surely you have utterly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, ‘It shall be well with you,’ whereas the sword has reached their very life.”
Sound familiar?
quote:
And if the prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I, the LORD, have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
That one ring a bell?
quote:
For thus says the LORD, ‘You shall not see wind or rain, but that streambed shall be filled with water, so that you shall drink, you, your livestock, and your animals.’ This is a light thing in the sight of the LORD. He will also give the Moabites into your hand,
He lied to Elisha, or Elisha lied, or Yahweh the Lord of Heavenly Armies was just plain wrong and couldn’t foresee he’d get his arse whooped by Chemosh.
quote:
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie
Surely you must know of that little guy in one of the non-authentic letters of Paul.
And once more I’ll say it. Yahweh lied to Adam and Eve in Genesis chapter 2-3. He said if they ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge they’d surely die in that day. When Yahweh couldn’t find them because they were naked and hiding in the bushes, he had to ask them who told they were naked, and asked if they’d eaten from the tree. He wanted man to remain ignorant. He lied to man to keep him ignorant. Adam lived 930 years after eating the fruit. He didn’t die that very day he ate the fruit. Keep your “spiritual death” to yourself as it is horseshite made up nonsense. The spirit was the breath. If someone’s spirit, or breath, died, they died. Died bodily. Ruach, pneuma, spirit, all one and the same. If anyone gave up the ghost, or gave up the spirit, they were dead. “Died spiritually” but remained alive 930 is a downright stupid argument, and it is fabricated by retard apologists like yourself. The word for spirit, which they had, was no where in that part about Adam dying. They had a word for it, and the scribe didn’t write it. Any attempt for you to insert it is changing the scripture and is sinful.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 4:27 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:I don’t deny science, history, or archeology (whatever that means). I deny the interpretations of people who deny God as the rational basis that makes all those disciplines possible when those interpretations reject the truth of our omniscient and omnipotent creator.
Since you deny science, history, and archeology, the only way to argue with an ignoramus such as yourself is to quote scripture, which you believe to be truthful even when it contradicts itself.
And quoting scripture is meaningless when it is taken out of its context.
quote:No, He doesn’t.
God doesn’t lie?
quote:Yes. Jeremiah 4:10.
Sound familiar?
There a few ways to reconcile this verse. One way is that Jeremiah is merely asking the question of God has deceived the people with prophecy of peace when war was just prophesied, which seems to Jeremiah to be a contradiction or deception. What the young prophet didn’t know at the time is that both war and peace would occur at different times due to Israel’s idolatry and subsequent repentance. There are other ways to sort that out, but one is good enough. God didn’t lie.
quote:Yes. Ezekiel 14:9.
That one ring a bell?
As the previous verse, there are sufficient interpretations that do not require God to lie here. One such interpretation is that God will raise up prophets who are allowed to deceive the people of Israel due to their desire to be deceived. The preceding verses and those that follow describe a people that are idolatrous and will be judged by God. God will judge the false prophets as well as those who listen to them against God’s word.
So again, God being sovereign and allowing (rather than preventing) false prophets to continue to lead the people astray is God’s act of judgment against an already rebellious nation. God does not lie.
quote:We’ve already gone through this one so no need to rehash it. God did not lie (and Chemosh isn’t real).
He lied to Elisha, or Elisha lied, or Yahweh the Lord of Heavenly Armies was just plain wrong and couldn’t foresee he’d get his arse whooped by Chemosh.
quote:2 Thessalonians is authentic.
Surely you must know of that little guy in one of the non-authentic letters of Paul.
This delusion is the same as what was mentioned in Ezekiel. God allows people to be deceived by false teachers like the “man of lawlessness” because they “have refused the truth”. Much like Romans 1, God gives people over to their sin so that they perish doing what they want and believing what they want, to their own destruction. However, God does not lie.
quote:They died spiritually that day and they began to die physically that day. Their days (lives) would have had no end if they obeyed God, but when they sinned, their days (lives) were numbered and would eventually end.
And once more I’ll say it. Yahweh lied to Adam and Eve in Genesis chapter 2-3. He said if they ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge they’d surely die in that day.
quote:Wrong. God didn’t lie lie, and He wasn’t keeping them ignorant. The rest was whether or not man would rely on God’s knowledge and revelation or whether or not they would seek to trust in themselves and their own knowledge.
When Yahweh couldn’t find them because they were naked and hiding in the bushes, he had to ask them who told they were naked, and asked if they’d eaten from the tree. He wanted man to remain ignorant. He lied to man to keep him ignorant.
quote:He didn’t need to die physically that day for God’s promise to be true. He died spiritually that day and needed God’s redemptive work of covering them by Christ’s blood as symbolized by the blood of the animal that provided skins for covering. He also began to die physically that very day.
Adam lived 930 years after eating the fruit. He didn’t die that very day he ate the fruit.
quote:Of course it seems like made up nonsense to you. It seems that you current have a spirit of deception.
Keep your “spiritual death” to yourself as it is horse shite made up nonsense.
quote:You have proven yourself a poor exegete and you have been consistently wrong in your interpretations because you refuse to interpret the Bible by itself. Paul describes what this death was in Roman’s, or do you reject that as a an “authentic” book, too?
The spirit was the breath. If someone’s spirit, or breath, died, they died. Died bodily. Ruach, pneuma, spirit, all one and the same. If anyone gave up the ghost, or gave up the spirit, they were dead. “Died spiritually” but remained alive 930 is a downright stupid argument, and it is fabricated by retard apologists like yourself. The word for spirit, which they had, was no where in that part about Adam dying. They had a word for it, and the scribe didn’t write it. Any attempt for you to insert it is changing the scripture and is sinful.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 5:15 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
This position, by necessity, excludes members of cults and sects that reject the true Gospel Jesus Christ, such as Mormons and Catholics.
look, the idiot catholic hating Calvinist is back. if you hate catholics you must really hate the bible. I have destroyed you so many times here. you are a fricking moron. read that 10 times and let it sink in.
here is another reminder you are a dumbass backwoods inbred.
remember this??
This post was edited on 6/30/23 at 5:18 pm
Posted on 6/30/23 at 5:25 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I have changed my position and am now convicted that I can only vote for someone who openly professes loyalty to Jesus Christ and lives a life consistent with the gospel of Christ.
I admire the strength of your conviction. It is why I will be laying down my life to protect Christians when the inevitable roundup begins.
Posted on 6/30/23 at 5:28 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
They died spiritually that day and they began to die physically that day. Their days (lives) would have had no end if they obeyed God, but when they sinned, their days (lives) were numbered and would eventually end.
Retard alert, class!
Sorry
Well not really.
Gen 3:22
quote:
Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” 23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken.
Adam had just eaten from the tree of knowledge (a reference to Asherah, wife of El Elyon, lady wisdom, Ruach Elohim, the Holy Spirit). He became like “one of us” knowing good and evil. He became like one of the gods in terms of having divine knowledge. He was a mortal man, destined to die - to return to the dust. The gods became afraid that Adam would also eat of the tree of life and live forever, so they banished him from the garden (per Enoch, the garden was in heaven). Follow that logic. Adam would have had to eat from the tree of life to live forever. He obviously hadn’t eaten from it ever at that point, as Yahweh and the gods were concerned that he might eat of it now that he has divine knowledge.
quote:
Paul describes what this death was in Roman’s, or do you reject that as a an “authentic” book, too?
Most scholarly consensus is that Romans was written by the same person who wrote Corinthians. Was it a historical Paul? Maybe. Probably even. Paul never met a historic Jesus and described how he got his gospel - not from any man - but through hallucinations. The writer of Luke-Acts later wrote a bunch of stories about Paul that are likely fabrications. Paul was trying to make sense of something that didn’t make sense to him, like you are now. He had to “interpret” scripture because certainly Yahweh wouldn’t lie, right? Paul had to invent “dying spirituality”.
Paul wasn’t the only Enochian Jew who had an interpretation. Other members of the sects like the Essenes recognized that Yahweh lied to Adam, but that it was for Adam’s own good. Christianity came from the Essenes or a similar group. The Qumran sect had more copies of Enoch than any other book. In Enoch, Noah is spared because he lacks divine knowledge that makes evil. The sons of El Elyon came down, raped human women, created a race of giants, and spread evil knowledge. That’s why Yahweh had to wipe them out. At the Tower of Babel, Yahweh had to confuse language so that they could not share knowledge. Knowledge led to evil. Yahweh lied to Adam to prevent him from gaining knowledge that would lead to evil.
It would help you to learn a little of the origins of Christianity, including the return from Babylonian exile, Persia building the temple, apostates from Persia kicking the natives out of the temple, etc. The Enochian Jews rejected much of the “law” and considered the temple priests as apostates and foreigners, and those Enochian Jews like Jesus couldn’t wait for the harlot on the hilltop - the temple - built by Persians - to be destroyed. Oddly enough, Jesus talks about destroying the temple because of its evil and corruption. Or maybe that’s not odd at all.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 9:40 am to Fat Bastard
quote:Did you copy the URL from the wrong thread? I don’t see any “owning” there from you. In fact, I responded to your attempt to “own” me and didn’t receive a response from you.
Fat Bastard
Sola Scriptura is a biblical concept because that is what Scripture teaches.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 9:50 am to Squirrelmeister
quote:So much wrong here.
Adam had just eaten from the tree of knowledge (a reference to Asherah, wife of El Elyon, lady wisdom, Ruach Elohim, the Holy Spirit). He became like “one of us” knowing good and evil. He became like one of the gods in terms of having divine knowledge. He was a mortal man, destined to die - to return to the dust. The gods became afraid that Adam would also eat of the tree of life and live forever, so they banished him from the garden (per Enoch, the garden was in heaven). Follow that logic. Adam would have had to eat from the tree of life to live forever. He obviously hadn’t eaten from it ever at that point, as Yahweh and the gods were concerned that he might eat of it now that he has divine knowledge.
The tree of knowledge didn’t represent anything. It was a tree that was used as a test. It provided knowledge of good and evil, not divine omniscience or secret gnostic knowledge of divine things.
“One of us” wasn’t a reference to “the gods”, but is the Trinity; the one God in three persons.
Adam was a mortal man destined to die, yes. That’s what I already said. Check your timeline: this statement about him eating from the tree of life and living forever came after he had sinned and received his death sentence.
The book of Enoch isn’t canonical. Eden was on earth but was modeled after paradise.
The rest of your post about Paul and Enochian Jews is pure conjecture on your part.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 10:28 am to Jon Ham
Well Joe has been disqualified, since his first month in office and continues to disqualify himself on a quarterly basis. Who wins?
But lets keep knit picking Trump, its always fun to see ignorant sheep fall for it every time.
But lets keep knit picking Trump, its always fun to see ignorant sheep fall for it every time.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 2:06 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The tree of knowledge didn’t represent anything.
It is a fable dude. A story meant to be a parallel to what was happening around them. The fable was inserted by priests loyal to the polytheist Jewish religion before the reforms brought about by the Persians and Zoroastrianism. This is detailed in 1 Enoch mind you, the most referenced book by New Testament authors. A corrupted version of Yahweh accompanies a new religion that replaces the pre-Babylonian-conquest Canaanite polytheism. The reformers say that the Jews can now only worship Yahweh. They must cut down their Asherah “poles” (trees). KJV calls them “groves”. They must destroy the bronze snake god called Nehushtan. The story goes that Moses made the bronze serpent and it ended up in the temple where it was worshipped when Hezekiah destroyed it. The Genesis 2-3 account is about destroying Asherah and Nehushtan worship and kicking those religious adherents out of the temple, with the garden representing the temple.
quote:
“One of us” wasn’t a reference to “the gods”, but is the Trinity; the one God in three persons.
Oh yeah, the writers of Genesis were writing of a Trinity, a mystery that cannot be understood. Think those scribes would make copies of text they believed to be blasphemous? “Us” meant El Elyon the father, Asherah the mother (holy spirit), and the other gods like Nehushtan and angels including the great archangel, the beloved, the unique son among the many sons of El Elyon. The concept of the Trinity is resultant from trying to square the concept of one supreme deity (e.g. Ahura Mazda) with the many deities of their existing scriptures.
quote:
The rest of your post about Paul and Enochian Jews is pure conjecture on your part.
I wouldn’t call it conjecture, but it is based on evidence and consensus provided by modern scholarship.
ETA: I forgot to state that everything you said is bullshite.
This post was edited on 7/1/23 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 7/1/23 at 2:08 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I have changed my position and am now convicted that I can only vote for someone who openly professes loyalty to Jesus Christ and lives a life consistent with the gospel of Christ. Unfortunately, I won’t be voting for Trump a third time unless he repents.
So, as of now, you got Pence?
Posted on 7/1/23 at 2:26 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:Everything you say is based on speculation meant to give credence to every belief and writing other than the Bible. You say the Bible is wrong because Enoch says something different. You say the Bible is not even the Bible because Marcion said something different. You take the account of the Moabites over that of the Bible. You take all other accounts as true against the Bible. OK, you're free to do that, but you aren't exactly a neutral and unbiased arbiter of truth here when you are willing to accept everything that contradicts the Bible regardless of how speculative or even historically false it is.
Squirrelmeister
You take your erroneous opinions and slap on a label of "modern scholarship" (it isn't consensus, even if that mattered) because you read a website telling you things that you want to hear (which you're already looking for anything that contradicts the orthodox narrative) and then call those like myself who disagrees with you names, as if ad hominem attacks strengthen your position (they don't; they weaken it).
I feel sorry for you. You have no objective standard for truth, yet criticize others as if you have objective truth to use for those criticisms. You are a fool in the Biblical sense, and you don't even care that you are on your way to Hell for eternity. I really do hope that the Lord changes you.
Repent of your rebellion against your creator and trust in the saving work of Jesus Christ for sin before you die in your guilt and suffer for eternity. Jesus Christ is the only hope there is for salvation from such a fate.
This post was edited on 7/2/23 at 2:04 am
Posted on 7/1/23 at 2:31 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:No. I think he's a stooge for the Deep State.
So, as of now, you got Pence?
Just because someone says they are a Christian doesn't mean I'm automatically going to vote for them. That's the bare minimum in my opinion; someone who publicly professes faith in Jesus Christ and lives a life consistent with that profession. Beyond that, there are differences in political positions and policy.
Posted on 7/1/23 at 3:51 pm to SlapahoeTribe
quote:
legislation preventing biological men from competing against women in sports
Friendly reminder that Title IX already covers this
Posted on 7/1/23 at 6:15 pm to Powerman
quote:
You neglect to admit that the trans movement gained great power while Trump was president. As did other leftist groups.
Yeah cause of Covid. That was the Trans’ time to shine.
Posted on 7/2/23 at 12:10 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Repent
Repentance to atone for sin is another Zoroastrian concept adopted from the Persian overlords.
The Christians had to have a new method for atonement of sin anyway. The temple where blood and guts of animals was splattered all over no longer existed.
One final Yom Kippur - the final atonement - was already accomplished. Two unblemished goats were captured. One named Jesus Bar Abbas - literally Jesus son of the father - an alleged murderer and criminal was to be set free to take away the sins of Israel. The other goat, named Jesus the Messiah, was to be sacrificed to God as a final atonement. The blood of animals only atoned for sins for a short time and had to be repeated. However, the blood of a divine demigod was good enough to atone for sins forever.
The world was supposed to end, with the righteous receiving heavenly bodies and ascending up into the clouds - many alive never experiencing death. But Paul told his followers not to worry, that those who died as followers of Jesus the Messiah would “sleep” until he returned to give even them new spiritual bodies. The end was very near. It never happened.
Well people are still sinful. We have to atone somehow. Hey let’s do what the people who built our temple, completely rewrote our scriptures from scratch (Ezra) and who ruled us for hundreds of years do. Repent. Seems good enough.
Posted on 7/2/23 at 2:08 am to Squirrelmeister
Repent of your rejection of the truth. God has been slow to wrath and has been merciful to you by giving you this opportunity to turn away from your lies and idolatry and embrace salvation through the only one who can save you. Repent now before it is too late. Repent and turn to Jesus Christ, the son of God who took on a human nature to reconcile sinners and redeem the lost.
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