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re: Trump: “The traitors that told the military to disobey my orders should be in jail”

Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:22 pm to
Posted by Jbird
Shoot the tires out!
Member since Oct 2012
90772 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:22 pm to
Individual responsibility?

Are you suggesting I just followed orders is a adequate defense?

Lol
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477231 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:22 pm to
Again, what is illegal about saying to follow the law and Constitution?

It's been days and you've yet to answer that directly.

Just like you can't cite a case where people making similar general comments were prosecuted for sedition.

The reason there are no examples of that is.

quote:

the statements of law were clear, unequivocal, and proper.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477231 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:23 pm to
quote:

Are you suggesting I just followed orders is a adequate defense?


Clearly not, which is part of their message you're melting about.
Posted by Jbird
Shoot the tires out!
Member since Oct 2012
90772 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:23 pm to
Nothing illegal 4parsingplug

Posted by Jbird
Shoot the tires out!
Member since Oct 2012
90772 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:24 pm to
No melting just trying to see why playing political games with enlisted forces give you a hard on.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477231 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:25 pm to
quote:

playing political games with enlisted forces give you a hard on.


It doesn't

Following the law and Constitution matters to me.

Not looking stupid vicariously due to idiots who won't listen matters to me, too.
Posted by Jbird
Shoot the tires out!
Member since Oct 2012
90772 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:26 pm to
Really so you believe the dems made that video for pure reasons as it pertains to enlisted forces?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477231 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:28 pm to
I told you why they made it.

To get dumb fricking reactions like this thread.
Posted by Jbird
Shoot the tires out!
Member since Oct 2012
90772 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:29 pm to
So the by product of this doesn't matter to you at all.

I told you why they did it.

You prefer to think they did it to troll.

So much easier for 4indy that way.

Your suggesting they did it for TD to melt.

Beautiful
This post was edited on 11/23/25 at 4:31 pm
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:31 pm to
Lot of melting from you over this when our DUI hire at the DOD created one of the worst national security risks in history for a photo op and to bitch about fat people
Posted by Jbird
Shoot the tires out!
Member since Oct 2012
90772 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:32 pm to
Wtf are you babbling about Joey?
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:33 pm to
You’re whining about “playing politics” when “your side” took almost every deployed general and put them in one spot, and also announced to the world the date and time.
Posted by djsdawg
Member since Apr 2015
41748 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:34 pm to
quote:

They made a general statement.


Yes, but it’s a problem besides the statement was a false implication without evidence.
Posted by Jbird
Shoot the tires out!
Member since Oct 2012
90772 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:34 pm to
Omg a meeting how terrible!

Never been to a Commander's Call have you Joey?

This post was edited on 11/23/25 at 4:35 pm
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477231 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:36 pm to
quote:

but it’s a problem besides the statement was a false implication without evidence.


quote:

The implication seems to be an angle you're pushing that they did not directly
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139060 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:41 pm to
quote:

Again, what is illegal about saying to follow the law and Constitution?

Wrong question
The correct question is does messaging trump exact words?

United States v. Elonis - His words looked like rap lyrics, courts examined whether the meaning, in context, was a “true threat.”
The Supreme Court affirmed the principle that contextual meaning matters and doesn't require explicit wording.

Virginia v. Black - Cross-burning vs true threats. The Court held you don’t need the words “I will kill you.” A cross burning may itself convey a threatening meaning depending on context. Meaning can be implicit, symbolic, and historically loaded.

United States v. Jeffries (2012) Musician made a YouTube video directed at a judge in a custody dispute. The video did not contain an explicit threat, but its imagery and tone conveyed a true threat. Conviction upheld because the reasonable meaning was threatening, even if phrased as "artistic expression."

Mafia & Organized Crime Cases (multiple): John Gotti, Vincent “The Chin” Gigante, Whitey Bulger. Phrases like “take care of him,” “straighten this out,” or “he won’t be a problem” were interpreted as orders to commit violence, supported by context and pattern of behavior. Courts explicitly instruct juries that they may interpret the meaning of "coded speech."

United States v. Hansen -The Supreme Court noted that a person can “encourage or induce” a crime without explicit wording—the conviction depended on the meaning conveyed by his solicitations.

Fraud Cases: United States v. Weimert - The defendant did not make literal false statements, but created a misleading impression.
The Seventh Circuit held that fraud can be proved by what the words meant to a reasonable listener.

United States v. Abu Ali - Ali used indirect phrasing (“take action,” “prepare for the operation”). Conviction based on meaning, not literal wording.

Witness Tampering Cases: United States v. Jackson - Jackson told a witness: “You know what happens if you talk.”

I can do this all effing day
This post was edited on 11/23/25 at 4:42 pm
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
299716 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:42 pm to
quote:

was a false implication without evidence.


Where?

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477231 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:44 pm to
quote:

Wrong question


quote:

It's been days and you've yet to answer that directly.


quote:

United States v. Elonis - His words looked like rap lyrics, courts examined whether the meaning, in context, was a “true threat.”
The Supreme Court affirmed the principle that contextual meaning matters and doesn't require explicit wording.

Virginia v. Black - Cross-burning vs true threats. The Court held you don’t need the words “I will kill you.” A cross burning may itself convey a threatening meaning depending on context. Meaning can be implicit, symbolic, and historically loaded.

United States v. Jeffries (2012) Musician made a YouTube video directed at a judge in a custody dispute. The video did not contain an explicit threat, but its imagery and tone conveyed a true threat. Conviction upheld because the reasonable meaning was threatening, even if phrased as "artistic expression."

Mafia & Organized Crime Cases (multiple): John Gotti, Vincent “The Chin” Gigante, Whitey Bulger. Phrases like “take care of him,” “straighten this out,” or “he won’t be a problem” were interpreted as orders to commit violence, supported by context and pattern of behavior. Courts explicitly instruct juries that they may interpret the meaning of "coded speech."

United States v. Hansen -The Supreme Court noted that a person can “encourage or induce” a crime without explicit wording—the conviction depended on the meaning conveyed by his solicitations.

Fraud Cases: United States v. Weimert - The defendant did not make literal false statements, but created a misleading impression.
The Seventh Circuit held that fraud can be proved by what the words meant to a reasonable listener.

United States v. Abu Ali - Ali used indirect phrasing (“take action,” “prepare for the operation”). Conviction based on meaning, not literal wording.

Witness Tampering Cases: United States v. Jackson - Jackson told a witness: “You know what happens if you talk.”


How many of these included specific, lawful generic language in the message?

quote:

I can do this all effing day

Yes you can find as many irrelevant examples as you want.

They just lack value.

Relevant examples are much more impactful...and rare.
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
82424 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:45 pm to
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quote:

This is the law
@realDonaldTrump
is looking for: 18 U.S.C. § 2387 — Activities Affecting Armed Forces General
This statute makes it a federal crime to do any of the following with the intent to interfere with U.S. military operations:
1.Advise, urge, or attempt to cause:
•insubordination,
•disloyalty,
•mutiny, or
•refusal of duty
among members of the U.S. military.
2.Obstruct or attempt to obstruct:
•recruiting,
•enlistment,
•or general military operations.
3.Distribute written materials advocating any of the above.
This law does not require advocating the overthrow of the government — that is § 2385.
Section 2387 is specifically about undermining the functioning of the U.S. military.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139060 posts
Posted on 11/23/25 at 4:50 pm to
quote:

How many of these included specific, lawful generic language in the message?
Every single one

As a non-lawyer, I can cite 50 or 60 more cases EASILY.
Your linguistic approach here is a loser.

Fall back to Legislative Branch protections.
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