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Started By
Message
re: Trump is scrapping Obama's Russian helicopter deal
Posted on 6/28/17 at 8:22 am to ChineseBandit58
Posted on 6/28/17 at 8:22 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Why the hell was there a deal in the first place that needed to be stopped?????
because the Afghans were more familiar with the Mi-17s
quote:
military officials originally favored the Mi-17 because Afghan pilots and mechanics were already familiar with it.
0
Posted on 6/28/17 at 8:24 am to ChineseBandit58
Not really a good move, regardless of whoever is responsible for it... Not that it will matter much to this board but here is why:
1. The Blackhawk is an expensive airframe to maintain and fly. Afghanistan will not be able to afford it.
2. It will require extensive retraining to get the Afghan pilots spun up on it and I am not certain but the pool of eligible pilots will probably shrink.
3. Technical maintenance - where is Afghanistan going to find the people to maintain the Blackhawk?
Now, I am all about "buy American" but the MI17 was already being refurbished in the U.S. in Texas and I believe Arizona, so technically, even though the MI17 was a "Russian" frame it was being "built" here before being shipped to Afghanistan.
1. The Blackhawk is an expensive airframe to maintain and fly. Afghanistan will not be able to afford it.
2. It will require extensive retraining to get the Afghan pilots spun up on it and I am not certain but the pool of eligible pilots will probably shrink.
3. Technical maintenance - where is Afghanistan going to find the people to maintain the Blackhawk?
Now, I am all about "buy American" but the MI17 was already being refurbished in the U.S. in Texas and I believe Arizona, so technically, even though the MI17 was a "Russian" frame it was being "built" here before being shipped to Afghanistan.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 8:26 am to TrueTiger
quote:sig worthy
I'm not fully awake myself
Posted on 6/28/17 at 8:29 am to mmcgrath
quote:Muh WINNING!
The Mi-17 deal was stopped at least a year ago.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 8:34 am to SSpaniel
quote:
From the article
quote:
The Pentagon’s first congressionally required report on Afghanistan under President Trump says the Russian Mi-17 chopper has proved a failure in the long war and will be phased out in favor of American-made UH-60 Black Hawks. The Obama administration came to realize the failure in its last weeks in office and stopped the deal.
SO.. the pentagon under Trump issued a report officially stating the deal was a failure, but the Obama admin had already realized it and stopped the deal? Does that sum it up?
The article is lying. The report never says anything other than the new Black Hawks are being delivered. Reuters article from 2013 on cancelling the deal
quote:
The Pentagon no longer will buy Russian helicopters for the Afghan Air Force from Rosoboronexport, a state-owned arms exporter that also sells weapons to the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, U.S. defense officials and a leading Senate opponent of such deals said on Wednesday.
quote:
Defense Department spokeswoman Maureen Schumann said in an email: "After initially requesting funds from Congress in the FY14 (2014 fiscal year) budget to provide additional enhancements for the Afghan National Security Forces, the department has re-evaluated requirements in consultation with Congress."
"We currently do not have plans to purchase additional Mi17s from Rosoboronexport beyond those in the Afghan Program of Record," she said.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 8:50 am to BamaFan365
quote:
quote:
The Mi-17 deal was stopped at least a year ago
Link?
It's in the article mmcgrath didnt read and it wasnt a year ago.
quote:
The Obama administration came to realize the failure in its last weeks in office and stopped the deal.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 8:53 am to mmcgrath
quote:
“Along with the increased expense and difficulty in maintaining the Mi-17 helicopter fleet, utility helicopters are in high demand and the required maintenance exceeds current capacity and capability, leading to maintenance backlogs and a reduced number of aircraft available,” the Defense Department report said. “Included in the recapitalization effort is an initiative to transition the force away from Russian-made Mi-17 helicopters to more reliable, cost-effective, and easier to sustain U.S.-made UH-60 helicopters.” The Mi-17 stood as an outlier in President Obama’s economic-sanction-filled assault on the regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin in response to his invasion of eastern Ukraine. The administration allowed Rosoboronexport, the state-run arms broker, to stay off the sanctions list as it pertained to maintaining Mi-17s amid $554 million in U.S. funds via Afghanistan to supply the helicopter.
Congress forced the DOD to stop buying Russian helicopters in 2013, but the Obama admins continue to give Afghanistan money to buy parts and weapons from Russia to fix the helicopters bought before 2013. Trump is ending that.
Maybe you should read an article before running in to defend your butt buddy.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 8:56 am to mmcgrath
quote:
You really need to stop reading crap like the Washington Times
So who would you deem reputable and worthy? NY Times? CNN?
Posted on 6/28/17 at 9:01 am to WeeWee
quote:
Congress forced the DOD to stop buying Russian helicopters in 2013, but the Obama admins continue to give Afghanistan money to buy parts and weapons from Russia to fix the helicopters bought before 2013. Trump is ending that.
Trump is more likely to reverse this and start buying Russian helicopters again. But it is cute that you think he is stopping anything. Weren't you a doctor in school on an island not too long ago? Why did you become such a hack?
Posted on 6/28/17 at 9:05 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Weren't you a doctor in school on an island not too long ago?
Finished in St. Maarten last Aug and now I am midway through my 3rd year of med school in Miami.
quote:
Trump is more likely to reverse this and start buying Russian helicopters again.
quote:
Why did you become such a hack?
Zero evidence to back up your claims and you want to call me a hack. You are the hack and insufferable poster.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 9:09 am to WeeWee
quote:You are the one making a claim that Trump stopped Afghanistan from purchasing parts for the Mi-17. Care to link to that claim? You do know that they aren't stopping the use of the Mi-17's right now, right?
Zero evidence to back up your claims and you want to call me a hack. You are the hack and insufferable poster.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 9:10 am
Posted on 6/28/17 at 9:09 am to WeeWee
quote:
but the Obama admins continue to give Afghanistan money to buy parts and weapons from Russia to fix the helicopters bought before 2013. Trump is ending that.
Every article states that Obama had already proposed to end the deal.
Trump just approved the proposal.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 9:12 am to Salmon
Fake Winning.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 9:31 am to TrueTiger
quote:
That's right, Obama is the one who had a deal with with the Russians to buy their helicopters for Afghan use. Those will now be phased out and replaced with American machines.
More like Trump being a whore to the MIC.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 9:34 am to The Maj
quote:
Not really a good move, regardless of whoever is responsible for it... Not that it will matter much to this board but here is why: 1. The Blackhawk is an expensive airframe to maintain and fly. Afghanistan will not be able to afford it. 2. It will require extensive retraining to get the Afghan pilots spun up on it and I am not certain but the pool of eligible pilots will probably shrink. 3. Technical maintenance - where is Afghanistan going to find the people to maintain the Blackhawk? Now, I am all about "buy American" but the MI17 was already being refurbished in the U.S. in Texas and I believe Arizona, so technically, even though the MI17 was a "Russian" frame it was being "built" here before being shipped to Afghanistan.
Great post
Let the Afghans stick with a platform they are already familiar with. Can't wait to see Blackhawks crashing all over that shite hole.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 9:35 am
Posted on 6/28/17 at 9:49 am to mmcgrath
quote:
You are the one making a claim that Trump stopped Afghanistan from purchasing parts for the Mi-17.
Incorrect. Lets look at my claim.
quote:
Congress forced the DOD to stop buying Russian helicopters in 2013, but the Obama admins continue to give Afghanistan money to buy parts and weapons from Russia to fix the helicopters bought before 2013. Trump is ending that.
Now lets look at the evidence.
quote:Article in the OP
The Mi-17 stood as an outlier in President Obama’s economic-sanction-filled assault on the regime of Russian President Vladimir Putin in response to his invasion of eastern Ukraine. The administration allowed Rosoboronexport, the state-run arms broker, to stay off the sanctions list as it pertained to maintaining Mi-17s amid $554 million in U.S. funds via Afghanistan to supply the helicopter. The argument for the full deal was that Afghan pilots and crew members were more accustomed to Russian-made weapons systems.
quote:LINK
LOTN, the Slovak Ministry of Defence (MoD)-owned aircraft repair facility, was awarded a contract on 26 October by the NATO Support and Procurement Agency (NSPA) to provide general maintenance for up to 40 Russian-made Mil Mi-17V-5 medium transport helicopters in service with the Afghan National Army. The value of the contract could grow to EUR110 million (USD122 million), depending on the number of aircraft involved.
So the Obama did give Afghanistan $554million to maintain the Mi-17. Afghanistan has already spent that money by awarding a maintenance on contract to the Czech republic state arms company and Russia.
quote:LINK
As part of Afghanistan’s four-year road map to double its 17,000-strong special forces unit and bolster the Afghan Air Force, the U.S. plans to provide Afghanistan with up to 159 refurbished UH-60A Black Hawks to replace its aging fleet of Russian Mi-17 transport helicopters, according to Afghan and U.S. defense officials.
Trump approved the DOD's plan to replace the Mi-17 with blackhawks.
quote:I do not know how to link the actual report but here is the DOD page to find the report
As of April 11, 2017, 18 Mi-17s and two C-130 are undergoing overhaul or heavy repair. One MD-530 was lost since last quarter after crashing due to a mechanical failure. It was destroyed to prevent its falling into insurgent possession. One A-29 crashed in the United States in March.302 In vetting comments, DOD noted that they do not fund any of the costs for the Mi-35 helicopters; under current sanctions, they fund only sustainment for the Mi-17 variant. Sanctions notwithstanding, DOD would not fund the cost of the Mi-35s because the A-29s were intended to replace them.
Now that the Mi-17 is going to be replaced by blackhawks the US is not going to provide anymore funds for their maintenance, because they are going to be replaced.
So my claim that Trump is ending that is correct because the USA will not be providing anymore $$$ to maintain the Mi-17s that are going to be replaced.
quote:
You do know that they aren't stopping the use of the Mi-17's right now, right?
Yes, every article states that it will take atleast 2 years to supply Afghanistan with blackhawks. The Afghan government has awarded a maintenance contract (with the money that Obama gave them) to the Czech Republic and Russia until then.
This post was edited on 6/28/17 at 9:52 am
Posted on 6/28/17 at 10:01 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Can't wait to see Blackhawks crashing all over that shite hole.
Well, that IS a fighting style Afghans are familiar with: 1 blows up, takes out many. They'll just be going from 2d to 3d.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 10:19 am to GeorgePaton
quote:
MAGA NOW! Then drain the swamp and lock them up! Starting with Susan Rice.
Dont forget about Eric "free guns to cartels" Holder.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 10:35 am to Salmon
quote:
Every article states that Obama had already proposed to end the deal.
Trump just approved the proposal.
No the DOD came up with the proposal and Obama ignored it.
Posted on 6/28/17 at 10:48 am to WeeWee
quote:
Now that the Mi-17 is going to be replaced by blackhawks the US is not going to provide anymore funds for their maintenance, because they are going to be replaced.
So my claim that Trump is ending that is correct because the USA will not be providing anymore $$$ to maintain the Mi-17s that are going to be replaced.
Yet you quoted this:
quote:
DOD noted that they do not fund any of the costs for the Mi-35 helicopters; under current sanctions, they fund only sustainment for the Mi-17 variant.
That's maintenance you hack. Trump didn't stop a dime of maintenance. You trying to say that a budgeted expenditure for a maintenance contract is all of the money needed as well as trying to imply that it is already spent is laughable. We will spend every dime to maintain those helicopters until they are out of service. More than likely we will buy a few more Mi-17's from other countries sometime next year.
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