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Message
re: .
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:11 pm to ShortyRob
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:11 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
It's funny. ALL of World history is replete with centralized populated centers exercising tyranny over broad populations. It was literally the MODEL for tyranny for all of human history.
Meanwhile, there are literally zero examples of the reverse.
So. Along comes Cahoots to long for the old days.
Plenty of successful nations elect Presidents by popular vote. Deflect deflect deflect
1
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:13 pm to ShortyRob
What would make the EC more representative is eliminating the "winner take all" rule in most states. The 2 "senator" votes should go the the winner of the popular vote in that state. The "representative" vote should go to the winner of the popular vote in each Congressional District. 
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:13 pm to cahoots
quote:I realize you willfully avoided the key element. So, I'll give ya another shot.
Plenty of successful nations elect Presidents by popular vote. Deflect deflect deflect
Show me one that is large with a disparate population that does so in a way you'd remotely hope to mimic
Come on.........you can do it
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:15 pm to Dr Hawkenbush
quote:I'm not averse to examining HOW we accommodate lesser populated regions. The HOW of how we are disparate is different.
What would make the EC more representative is eliminating the "winner take all" rule in most states. The 2 "senator" votes should go the the winner of the popular vote in that state. The "representative" vote should go to the winner of the popular vote in each Congressional District.
But to simply take the view cahoots wants is ignorant in the extreme
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:22 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
I'm not averse to examining HOW we accommodate lesser populated regions. The HOW of how we are disparate is different.
But to simply take the view cahoots wants is ignorant in the extreme
It isn't extreme nor radical. It was common thought at the time of the country's founding. I keep telling you that and you keep painting me as an extremist/authoritarian/whatever.
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:22 pm to cahoots
quote:You are just moving the current system out a level from the state to the nation. It doesn't change anything in the positive for the "power" of a vote.
Every single person's vote is worth 1 / the # of votes. When I say equal power, that's what I mean.
If you live in California, your vote is 1 / the # of votes in California. If you live in Wyoming, your vote is 1 / the # of votes in Wyoming. That's how your state's EC votes are decided. Comparing one state to another is irrelevant and there's no reason to do it. The number of EC votes is proportionally based on population of a state as dictated by the census that occurs every 10 years. If you live in a state with a lot of people, your state provides more votes to the winner, but your vote counts the same within that state. Same for those within states with small populations.
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:24 pm to cahoots
quote:Yes. For all of world history, nations were generally run by dominating urban centers at the expense of everyone else........generally, by tyrants. You ignorant fricktard. THAT's why our founders didn't do it.
It isn't extreme nor radical. It was common thought at the time of the country's founding.
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:26 pm to KirkLazarus
quote:And with this argument you still haven't seen one.
It’s rare to see an original observation/thought on here
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:28 pm to cahoots
Electoral votes should be distributed as 1 per house district with the state popular vote winner taking the senatorial electoral votes. When I lived in Illinois our house district always went for the GOP candidate but the state popular vote went to the popular vote winner.
This would make the electoral college more fair for those in traditional blue and red states.
This would make the electoral college more fair for those in traditional blue and red states.
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:28 pm to cahoots
quote:
If you are a blue voter in a red state or a red voter in a blue state, you are essentially useless in the eyes of a presidential candidate. It’s all about the swing states.
But it doesn’t end there. Since campaigns are laser focused on swing states, so are campaign promises. And those same promises come to fruition long after they are elected.
So not only does the electoral college render many Americans’ votes worthless, it also creates constant bias towards catering to the needs of Americans in swing states. It basically biases the presidency towards policies that influence swing states ALL THE TIME.
Electoral college forces compromise and dialog. It keeps our government from moving too fast and being at the whims of the mob.
Every vote is important. Politics and governments are long term ventures. Every vote is heard at each election. The results of the votes forces the parties to shift their agenda to conform to the populace.
The problem some people have with the electoral college is that
1] they don't understand it and;
2] they don't get immediate gratification from an election's result.
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:30 pm to Dr Hawkenbush
quote:
What would make the EC more representative is eliminating the "winner take all" rule in most states. The 2 "senator" votes should go the the winner of the popular vote in that state. The "representative" vote should go to the winner of the popular vote in each Congressional District.
Nope. You dilute the power of the majority and really just make a popular vote lite system.
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:30 pm to cahoots
quote:
And the opposing argument is that the places where more Americans live should help decide elections because that’s where more Americans have decided to live, work, and raise families.
And the people there have a hive mind mentality.
Does the beliefs, wants, and demands of someone residing in Manhattan match someone in Tennessee? San Francisco match someone in Alabama? Do they have the same life experiences? The same surroundings? How many people in San Francisco have held a hunting rifle? How many in Mississippi hasn’t?
People in Coastal California and the northeast coast want to rule based on their location. That doesn’t work in the central and south US. We should live like people gathered in Boston and Chicago think?
A permanent rule from the urban population centers who know nothing of what other states’ needs, norms, and wants entail is a recipe for conflict. People in the Midwest and South will not take the constant finger pointing from the east and west coasts constantly for very long.
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:36 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Yes. For all of world history, nations were generally run by dominating urban centers at the expense of everyone else........generally, by tyrants. You ignorant fricktard. THAT's why our founders didn't do it.
There were dissenting opinions. It wasn't settled science. That's why they built in the ability to CHANGE it. They even gave states the opportunity to decide how electors vote. Hell, electors don't even have to vote the way the population does! I told you that before too, but you continue to ignore it.
Again, you are acting like this is some perfect system that was never meant to be discussed. And you are wrong.
This post was edited on 10/9/18 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:40 pm to cahoots
quote:There were ZERO dissenting opinions as to whether or not the nation would even form without the accommodations. It was not going to form. That's reality. Yet you continue to ignore it.
There were dissenting opinions.
quote:There are no perfect systems. Humans are involved. But this one created the first long last large nation that didn't exist purely as a vehicle to enrich the urban centers.
Again, you are acting like this is some perfect system that was never meant to be discussed
So. Yeah. I'm right.
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:44 pm to cahoots
It's because of winner take all now. It wasn't always that way. How it was originally set up was great, political parties just gamed it to keep control.
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:47 pm to cahoots
Lets make all other states slaves to New York and California!!! Thats the ticket
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:47 pm to cahoots
Your last name wouldn't be, Coates, would it?
As in C. Coates?
Guy I went to high school with has be railing against the EC for two years.
Think I know you, you fat bastard! Lol
As in C. Coates?
Guy I went to high school with has be railing against the EC for two years.
Think I know you, you fat bastard! Lol
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:47 pm to cahoots
quote:and I've shown you mathematically why that isn't true. Repeating it won't rehabilitate the false premise.
Every single person's vote is worth 1 / the # of votes. When I say equal power, that's what I mean.
quote:
Elections are decided by half a million people!
No. They aren't. Please show your math. How does a candidate that receives only 500,000 votes win the presidential election? Do you really believe a candidate can win the EC with a losing margin of 45,000,000 votes to 500,000 votes? quote:
The top 20 cities have like 34 million people. Even factoring in the whole metro, you could get every single vote and you still wouldn't be near 50%!
Tt's almost 1/3 of all elligible voters. And your problem is that the EC concentrates voting influence too much? But hey, thanks for maiing my case for me. Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:48 pm to cahoots
quote:
It's sad how much you suck at math
Posted on 10/9/18 at 12:49 pm to ShortyRob
quote:He'll dodge this like he dodged the merits of making rural people less influential.
Show me one that is large with a disparate population that does so in a way you'd remotely hope to mimic
He's gotta be trolling.
This post was edited on 10/9/18 at 12:50 pm
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