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Started By
Message
re: Tonight's vote on the CR-billl gave us some clarity on who are not real conservatives
Posted on 12/19/24 at 8:54 pm to SaintsReportExile
Posted on 12/19/24 at 8:54 pm to SaintsReportExile
Where is the list of Pub no voters?
0
Posted on 12/19/24 at 8:55 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Lake won an election? When did this happen?
Ofer to date.
Posted on 12/19/24 at 8:56 pm to David_DJS
Well then I guess I'm practically the same as Pelosi and Jeffries.
Idiot.
Idiot.
Posted on 12/19/24 at 8:56 pm to BayouBlitz
Glad you dropped that nugget, I feel so much better
Posted on 12/19/24 at 8:56 pm to SaintsReportExile
If I heard correctly, they didn’t vote for the bill because they didn’t want to raise the debt ceiling.
Actually, that sounds a little conservative.
Actually, that sounds a little conservative.
Posted on 12/19/24 at 8:57 pm to tiggerfan02 2021
quote:
No more compromise! Either grab the rope and pull or you will get trampled
Brother, what they’re showing right now is compromise. They should be fighting these bills head on, not kowtowing on a second bill and high fiving.
Posted on 12/19/24 at 9:08 pm to Ten Bears
quote:That's the catch for Trump and why he wants this CR to raise the debt ceiling now....
Sorry if you think extending the debt limit out 2 years because you don’t want to deal with it the early summer of 2025 is conservative you’re a friggin idiot. There is never a good time to have a debt ceiling debate. In 2 years they’ll kick the can down the road because of the midterms and our debt problems roll on ad intonation. Trump should welcome a debt ceiling debate. He shouldn’t be scarred of it.
Now if you think that extending the debt ceiling for 2 years is the politically expedient thjng to do, fine. No argument there. But don’t call it conservative.
The lies some of yall believe is baffling.
Jan 3rd he will have an even slimmer majority in the House, where cuts will originate. He can't count on them to do the cuts.
If he does gamble that they will do cuts, with a slimmer majority, with booby traps laid domestically and internationally, with Johnson and he doesn't get the cuts he's fricked. He's stuck.
The only way he can "move" money is to fund his project first, then cut the old one. Since he can't count on Congress doing their job (would anyone trust these bozos?) he will be stuck... "stuck" in the sense he can't start his program AND, since he didn't "move" any funding, can't get rid of the Biden/Obama era programs.
It's all based on the assumption, or gamble, that this time Congress will actually do cuts. He can't take that gamble knowing his entire agenda is in shambles if he bets wrong. All based on how Congress "moves" money.
Posted on 12/19/24 at 9:12 pm to I20goon
quote:Clearly nothing would encourage Congress to make cuts like an unlimited debt ceiling
That's the catch for Trump and why he wants this CR to raise the debt ceiling now....
Jan 3rd he will have an even slimmer majority in the House, where cuts will originate. He can't count on them to do the cuts.
I thought Trump understood leverage. But the “ceiling” exists in order to exert leverage. Seems like an odd thing to remove if you’re trying to force Congress into cuts.
Posted on 12/19/24 at 9:16 pm to Taxing Authority
Posted on 12/19/24 at 10:31 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:You are exactly right. Exactly right if it wasn't congress. That is the process, that is how congress works. You can only "move" money if you spend it first.
Clearly nothing would encourage Congress to make cuts like an unlimited debt ceiling
I thought Trump understood leverage. But the “ceiling” exists in order to exert leverage. Seems like an odd thing to remove if you’re trying to force Congress into cuts.
And that's where these "no voters" on v.2 (and v.1) come in. They want promises in cuts before raising the debt ceiling. At least there is something to go with a limited raise in the debt ceiling.
But both these actions are the sole responsibility of Congress. The debt ceiling will be hit if spending increases are frozen. It's Congress, all of it, that put Trump (all of us really) in this position. The debt ceiling has to be raised because of the past sins. Question is do we get pork/more spending or do we get cuts with it. 'no voters' are insisting if we're going to have to do this, we should get the latter.
This is not a principled fight. This is realpolitik. Trump will accomplish nothing without that increase. By the way neither will the R house or senate. They all lose. Using "incentive" that guarantees failure is no incentive at all (by not raising the debt ceiling).
They will have to find another way. "They" are Congress. Trump will neither incitivize or deincintivize spending, or spending cuts. The debt ceiling, for the executive branch, is just necessary and they don't control it because of the process.
"Another way" is what the 'no voters' are trying to do. It's just impossible to do on a CR. They want the cuts structured in.
I will say this, a no-limit (27 months was it) is indeed exactly what you are talking about. Talk about rewarding bad behavior.
As far as Trump goes I think he should be talking along the lines of "I want my debt ceiling raised by X; I'd rather see a lower number with cuts". He both promotes his agenda/promises and still gets his realpolitik room to maneuver. I do think he's making a mistake by asking for the time-limited but amount-unlimited ceiling raise. That is getting into principles and outside the bounds of "necessary evil".
Posted on 12/19/24 at 10:37 pm to BayouBlitz
Preach... Two year debt ceiling suspension is horseshite.
Posted on 12/19/24 at 10:39 pm to AUauditor
They're opposed to DJT requesting the debt ceiling be suspended for two years
Posted on 12/19/24 at 10:40 pm to lsuguy84
quote:
Brother, what they’re showing right now is compromise. They should be fighting these bills head on, not kowtowing on a second bill and high fiving.
Yup. This was great and they shed 1300 pages off the original
Lets get it down to 5 pages now and lets see what the 30 that voted against it come ip with
Obviously no more pork cause this 30 against it all
Posted on 12/19/24 at 10:42 pm to biscuitsngravy
A question nobody has asked, when has the debt ceiling ever mattered? The last budget didn’t , the billions of dollars to Ukraine every week doesn’t , but now it does? Now though people (Congress) wants to act and care about it is just insulting.
Posted on 12/19/24 at 10:43 pm to SDVTiger
That would be great
Posted on 12/19/24 at 10:45 pm to momentoftruth87
Conservatives are supposed to care. Suspending the ceiling is opposite of all conservative principles
Posted on 12/19/24 at 10:51 pm to lsuguy84
If they flip flop they will look insane and get primaried by Musk
Seems like they are boxing them in
Seems like they are boxing them in
Posted on 12/19/24 at 10:52 pm to SDVTiger
quote:Those 33-38 (with 3-5 R's voting no for other reasons) really want a reconciliation bill and to hell with the CR... with spending cuts to boot.
Yup. This was great and they shed 1300 pages off the original
Lets get it down to 5 pages now and lets see what the 30 that voted against it come ip with
Obviously no more pork cause this 30 against it all
Which is the way to go. If it was September. Or... wait till Jan and roll the dice.
To wait till Jan, shut down it is. Which is the way to go... IF those cuts get structured in.
If enough cuts were to pass, the debt ceiling raise (or suspension) is moot. But it has an extremely low chance of happening. So some cuts and some raise (frick a bunch of suspension) would be the result if they can just hold the line and not do any CR.
It's the CR's that are the root of the problem. CRs and no debate allow cover for excess spending.
The no R voters aren't pushing Trump. Nor are they pushing the Democrats. They are pushing back on their fellow R's who have allowed the CRs, and abuse of the resolution process, to become the norm.
Posted on 12/19/24 at 11:13 pm to momentoftruth87
quote:It's a good question (I upvoted you).
A question nobody has asked, when has the debt ceiling ever mattered? The last budget didn’t , the billions of dollars to Ukraine every week doesn’t , but now it does? Now though people (Congress) wants to act and care about it is just insulting.
It hasn't really....
A) TaxingAuthority mentioned incentive; but bumping up into it multiple times hasn't slowed anyone down.
B) Treasury will always find a way, regardless.
C) 107 years and never defaulted
But it sure hasn't changed Congresses behavior. Hasn't changed what administrations ask for.
Would repealing it change anything? Would spending get worse? histrionics says it wouldn't get worse or better.
If it didn't exist at all, wasn't even a consideration, would things get better? histrionics says no. All it is right now, in real effect, is a negotiating tool. McCarthy used it in 2023 to get cuts (the got wiped out). Right now it is a big hangup in negotiations; that might actually be a good thing.
Posted on 12/20/24 at 5:09 am to BuckyCheese
quote:
Look for the republican no votes and you'll have a decent list.
bullshite. You can find most of those names on any "defense" spending omnibus monstrosity that's been passed in the last few years.
"Conservatives" are a myth brought up when convenient... like when never-Trumpers want to bitch.
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