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Message
re: Time to switch from government to the free market
Posted on 12/13/19 at 10:42 am to TigerWhatIR
Posted on 12/13/19 at 10:42 am to TigerWhatIR
quote:
The majority of society would not tolerate anyone owning slaves
False, Slavery has been used in society for thousands of years.
Your morality doesn't trump mine in a free market society.
If I choose to use beasts or other forms its my call.
Theft will be reduced to summery executions or servitude.

This post was edited on 12/13/19 at 10:46 am
Posted on 12/13/19 at 10:42 am to TigerWhatIR
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/20/20 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 12/13/19 at 11:18 am to KCT
My previous response about the insurance firms / arbitration is a key part of the answers for #1 and #3, but in addition:
1) Local Security/Policing
Mortgage companies might require borrowers to subscribe to a security/insurance firm just like they currently have other requirements. HOA’s might provide for security coverage with their fees too. But aside from those points, maybe you decide you can defend your home on your own and don’t want to hire someone. Fine, government won’t be there to force you to pay them protection money for their unaccountable badged thugs. But if you get assisted by a service that a neighbor paid for, so what? That security firm might only try to apprehend the criminal when he comes out of the nonsubscriber’s home rather than rush in and risk their life, depending on company policy. If I were to subscribe to a security firm, I would be grateful for them to secure my surrounding area of crime too. I don’t want crime in the next neighborhood either because those criminals in the vicinity still put me at risk and bring my property value down. It won’t stop me if some people are freeloaders or too poor to contribute to security, I want it anyway and will pay for it. Even today with government, half the people are freeloaders. There are also lots of other things that one can “freeload” or benefit from that they aren’t paying for. For example, your property value might be extra high simply because of utilities/services other people have created nearby, despite you not paying into them or using them. So what?
2) Muh Roads
Neighborhood roads would likely be priced into the home price by the developer, with HOA fees to maintain them.
Other roads may be owned/maintained by big Road Companies that require a subscription fee to use them.
Some roads may simply be paid for by the private businesses located on them, since companies want people to access their stores, in the same way they provide their own parking lots. They’re even able to cooperate with multiple businesses to share parking lots and access roads now.
RFID/scan tolls are another option, particularly for bridges.
3) National Security
There would be multiple security firms that people would subscribe to and that businesses would give large contributions to. Poor/stingy people scattered around might not subscribe to them, although that’s not any different from the majority of Americans who don’t pay taxes currently, and some reasoning I mentioned in #1 applies here too.
Any foreign invasion would still be met with defense from these firms. But why would a nation invade us when we have no centralized power structure to topple or take over, or to piss others off and incite a war against us in the first place? How would they win, when even we couldn’t beat Afghanistan or Vietnam?
The cost of our national defense would be drastically cheaper once all the Cabal’s unjust wars were cut out and once the free market forces and innovation are allowing us to build the best space defense weapons instead of government waste on tanks and $100 hammers.
Other obvious benefits are that soldiers would be able to switch between firms to seek the best pay/benefits and will be well taken care off, and would not be used as cannon fodder in unjust wars. It would be honorable once again to be in our military, and the extremely high suicide rate and PTSD rate of troops would likely drop drastically.
No war would be fought that the people (subscribers) didn’t support because they’d have to fund it. So every war or peacekeeping mission would be backed by people at home.
Additionally, we’d have the ability to pool money together to fund a peacekeeping mission to stop a foreign genocide if we wanted to, whereas currently with government we don’t have that option.
Also, most of the funding for these security firms would come from large businesses. There also would likely be societal pressure and incentives to encourage people/businesses to fund our security.
1) Local Security/Policing
Mortgage companies might require borrowers to subscribe to a security/insurance firm just like they currently have other requirements. HOA’s might provide for security coverage with their fees too. But aside from those points, maybe you decide you can defend your home on your own and don’t want to hire someone. Fine, government won’t be there to force you to pay them protection money for their unaccountable badged thugs. But if you get assisted by a service that a neighbor paid for, so what? That security firm might only try to apprehend the criminal when he comes out of the nonsubscriber’s home rather than rush in and risk their life, depending on company policy. If I were to subscribe to a security firm, I would be grateful for them to secure my surrounding area of crime too. I don’t want crime in the next neighborhood either because those criminals in the vicinity still put me at risk and bring my property value down. It won’t stop me if some people are freeloaders or too poor to contribute to security, I want it anyway and will pay for it. Even today with government, half the people are freeloaders. There are also lots of other things that one can “freeload” or benefit from that they aren’t paying for. For example, your property value might be extra high simply because of utilities/services other people have created nearby, despite you not paying into them or using them. So what?
2) Muh Roads
Neighborhood roads would likely be priced into the home price by the developer, with HOA fees to maintain them.
Other roads may be owned/maintained by big Road Companies that require a subscription fee to use them.
Some roads may simply be paid for by the private businesses located on them, since companies want people to access their stores, in the same way they provide their own parking lots. They’re even able to cooperate with multiple businesses to share parking lots and access roads now.
RFID/scan tolls are another option, particularly for bridges.
3) National Security
There would be multiple security firms that people would subscribe to and that businesses would give large contributions to. Poor/stingy people scattered around might not subscribe to them, although that’s not any different from the majority of Americans who don’t pay taxes currently, and some reasoning I mentioned in #1 applies here too.
Any foreign invasion would still be met with defense from these firms. But why would a nation invade us when we have no centralized power structure to topple or take over, or to piss others off and incite a war against us in the first place? How would they win, when even we couldn’t beat Afghanistan or Vietnam?
The cost of our national defense would be drastically cheaper once all the Cabal’s unjust wars were cut out and once the free market forces and innovation are allowing us to build the best space defense weapons instead of government waste on tanks and $100 hammers.
Other obvious benefits are that soldiers would be able to switch between firms to seek the best pay/benefits and will be well taken care off, and would not be used as cannon fodder in unjust wars. It would be honorable once again to be in our military, and the extremely high suicide rate and PTSD rate of troops would likely drop drastically.
No war would be fought that the people (subscribers) didn’t support because they’d have to fund it. So every war or peacekeeping mission would be backed by people at home.
Additionally, we’d have the ability to pool money together to fund a peacekeeping mission to stop a foreign genocide if we wanted to, whereas currently with government we don’t have that option.
Also, most of the funding for these security firms would come from large businesses. There also would likely be societal pressure and incentives to encourage people/businesses to fund our security.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 11:28 am to QboveTopSecret
Groups opposing the very existence of government are implicitly pro-slavery regardless of what else they say, because that's what the market does in real life in the absence of government.
Simple as that. End of story.
This post was edited on 12/13/19 at 11:29 am
Posted on 12/13/19 at 11:39 am to QboveTopSecret
quote:
False, Slavery has been used in society for thousands of years.
Your morality doesn't trump mine in a free market society.
Slavery has always been enabled and protected by governments. Otherwise, opponents of it would have more freedom to counter it. “Underground railroads” to free slaves would be in plain sight and celebrated.
Bottom line is, it’s a lot harder to defend an aberration than to disrupt/stop it. And if most of society opposes slavery, it will be that much harder to hide your slaves. Even if the majority of people support slavery, it will be easier to counter it in a free market society than in a government society where the monopoly force is protecting slaveholders.
Another example is abortion. Your morality doesn’t trump mine, but even if the majority support abortion, how much are they willing to pay to hire guards willing to risk their lives defending abortion clinics from midnight RPG attacks?
ETA:
Free market societies have been very rare throughout history. Name one that supported slavery. Your claim is false.
This post was edited on 12/13/19 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 12/13/19 at 11:52 am to cahoots
quote:
Who else is going to be responsible for laws if not the government? I don't understand how that can be privatized.
Everyone would have an understanding of the basic natural laws: don’t hurt people or take their things. As you get into the details of things that are borderline criminal, it would be settled in the arbitration courts. Also, the security/policing firms would publish their company policies, particularly about under which circumstances they will arrest/stop a criminal and for what crimes, etc. For the most part, I’d expect their policies would agree. Some examples of where they might differ is in my abortion example in my comment above.
quote:
What is the benefit of an industry that makes more money by imprisoning more people?
Current private prisons get subsidies from government for each inmate. That monetary incentive would not exist in the free market. Housing prisoners is an expense.
But suppose a private prison starts making high profit through prison slave labor and wants more prisoners. How are they going to obtain more prisoners? They would have to bribe/lobby to dozens or hundreds of security firms to criminalize more people rather than just having to bribe/lobby one monopoly government. If they were successful, the free market would likely catch on to the scheme and boycott the prison labor contracts and boycott the security firms that were unjustly imprisoning people for them.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 11:55 am to TigerWhatIR
You're doing a good job, Tiger. I would add re: police, an anecdote.
Years ago New Orleans police went on strike. The crime rate went down. Why? Because the businesses hired private armed guards. They didn't care about police rules. If you tried to rob the building they shot you dead. Word got out fast on the streets.
Years ago New Orleans police went on strike. The crime rate went down. Why? Because the businesses hired private armed guards. They didn't care about police rules. If you tried to rob the building they shot you dead. Word got out fast on the streets.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 12:02 pm to TigerWhatIR
Watching the “men who built America” was interesting in the fact that Carnegie built the St. Louis bridge and J.P. Morgan along with Edison ran electricity to all of New York....without a single Govt dollar.
“But who will build the roads and bridges”
“But who will build the roads and bridges”
Posted on 12/13/19 at 12:07 pm to Zach
The guards were likely also actually patrolling the businesses that hired them, doing what they were hired to do, rather than setting up revenue extortion checkpoints to molest people on their way to work like government police do.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 12:10 pm to deltaland
quote:Right. But Leftists want to eliminate “the rich” and destroy the capital required for private industry leaving it only to government.
Watching the “men who built America” was interesting in the fact that Carnegie built the St. Louis bridge and J.P. Morgan along with Edison ran electricity to all of New York....without a single Govt dollar.
“But who will build the roads and bridges”
Seems to have worked great in Venezuela. No more rich people. SUCCESS!!
Posted on 12/13/19 at 12:17 pm to stuntman
quote:
It's not going to happen either, because people on the "Right" constantly try to ridicule and downplay libertarian thought.
Not all libertarian thought. Just stupid shite like this:
quote:
No more being forced to pay for unjust wars. You just pay for whichever competing security firm you feel does the best job.
That deserves to be ridiculed.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 12:23 pm to Flats
quote:
That deserves to be ridiculed.
Then go ahead and present your counter argument.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 12:31 pm to TigerWhatIR
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/20/20 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 12/13/19 at 12:34 pm to Taxing Authority
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/20/20 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 12/13/19 at 12:45 pm to cahoots
quote:
In your hypothetical world, the security forces would grow and consolidate...
If they were doing nothing wrong, great. But if they do bad things, others will come together to counter them.
Your argument in favor of government over the free market is that the free market might eventually become an oppressive monopoly, like all governments? Do you see how silly that argument is?
Posted on 12/13/19 at 12:49 pm to TigerWhatIR
Uh, a government that protects the rights of all regardless of wealth?
I'm with you on a lot of stuff, but that particular line item is absurd. We're not even a country at that point.
I'm with you on a lot of stuff, but that particular line item is absurd. We're not even a country at that point.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 12:50 pm to cahoots
quote:
Whereas the right wants government to bend over backwards for some (like Amazon) while everyone else plays by a different set of rules, all in the name of job creation and trickle down economics. It's crony capitalism. It doesn't result in the net creation of more jobs but that doesn't matter. Keep on changing the rules for some but not others because the government is evil
Sounds like you’re catching on. Government is an evil, unjust monopoly power that does whatever the highest bidders want. Instead of the left and right fighting over who gets to control the weapon of government force, let’s eliminate it so the power is restored to each individual.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 12:54 pm to Flats
quote:
Uh, a government that protects the rights of all regardless of wealth?
I don’t know what you’re referring to there. I’m saying we should abolish government and get all our desired services through the free market businesses instead of through a government monopoly with unlimited power and funding via theft.
There will always be poor people and there will always be generous people willing to care for them.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 12:57 pm to TigerWhatIR
quote:
I don’t know what you’re referring to there. I’m saying we should abolish government and get all our desired services through the free market businesses instead of through a government monopoly with unlimited power and funding via theft.
Why don't you know what I'm referring to? Under your 100% free market system, if I can hire a security force much greater than my neighbor, I can just run his arse out of his house and take over. I think we should do a lot more free market than what we're doing, but it doesn't work for justice/law enforcement unless you just want to live at the mercy of the rich and powerful.
Posted on 12/13/19 at 1:00 pm to TigerWhatIR
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/20/20 at 12:51 pm
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