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re: The US overthrew the Yukanovych government in 2014
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:47 am to jimmy the leg
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:47 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
It is a direct tie from past corruption to current events.
The 2014 government was ousted and prosecuted by the current government. Where is the tie in Ukraine?
Unless you're talking about a manufactured talking point, then it "makes sense".
2
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:48 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Whats up with you?
SlowFlowPro
Seriously you seemingly cant resist babbling off into unfounded and unprincipled oblivion at the drop of a hat.
An insight into why Ukraine has become the scraps the bigger dogs fight over
Hint: it illustrates why US NeoCons are among the worlds biggest problems.
It also illustrates why the massively corrupt Democrat Party should NEVER AGAIN be offered even a trace of power
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Then they're insane or irrational. You pick.
Leave Russia out of the equation.
Viewing NATO as an expansionist military entity is neither insane or irrational— it is a simple observation of an indisputable fact.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:50 am to ksayetiger
quote:
So narrow minded. You really think this govt gives a rats arse about polling? Their goal is global domination amd the new world order.
You are far smarter than this baw
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:52 am to Bearcat90
quote:Hundreds of Nazis no less? and racists? and pedophiles too? No need to stop at "Russian Puppets". If you're going to make stupid assertions, double down!
Hundreds of Russian puppets on here today
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:53 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
Leave Russia out of the equation.
Viewing NATO as an expansionist military entity is neither insane or irrational— it is a simple observation of an indisputable fact.
To the extent that the nations that join are liberal democracies that can choose what they want, it’s just an organization of sovereign nations that agree to mutual defense.
It’s “expansionist” in the same way as all treaties with open applications are.
In the sense of military power, as the current situation shows, it doesn’t get involved without a clear and legal invocation of Article 5.
So, yeah, it is a *bit* irrational for Russia to be apprehensive to NATO...unless they have ambitions on conquering any country that is not yet in NATO.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:55 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:or by the NABU, which technically is not government, but does tie to Soros and likely the CIA.
The 2014 government was ousted and prosecuted by the current government
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:55 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The 2014 government was ousted and prosecuted by the current government. Where is the tie in Ukraine?
Yes. Yet the same can’t be said of the corrupted elements in the United States that supported that coup.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:56 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
2022? Not really, which makes invading in 2022 legitimately insane (and using 2014 as a justification even moreso)
It is more background as opposed to justification. Not the driver, but pertinent nonetheless.
quote:
If the CCP installed a regime in Mexico, under your application of logic, the USA would not have a right to oppose it?
quote:
It would not give us the right to invade Mexico.
What constitutes a “right to invade?”
Me personally, I would do whatever was necessary to protect, what was deemed by those in charge, to be our national interests. It seems as though you are more aligned with this guy than I am:
Again, Putin is a diabolical, authoritarian criminal. However, to dismiss the history of the region doesn’t compute for me. Nor does dismissing the whole NATO in Russia’s back yard aspect.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:56 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
No. Logic is a set concept. The illegality is clear. Morality is the only ambiguous factor.
Logic is a process that extends from a set of facts or beliefs. They have different “facts”
If you believe someone is about to murder your family is it logical and moral to kill them?
I’m not justifying their actions. I’m simply saying you have to understand their perspective to understand their actions.
You have zero understanding of conflict resolution
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:57 am to JJJimmyJimJames
That article, again, doesn't address the current government and the Russian response.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:57 am to DyeHardDylan
First of all let me start by saying War Eagle. Now let's add a few facts.
1. Yanukovych was a stooge of Putin that stole billions of dollars from Ukraine. That is a fact.
2. Yanukovych promised the people of Ukraine that he would sign the EU trade agreement (that the majority of people supported at the time). He lied to them and turned around and signed a major deal with Putin instead. That is a fact.
3. In 2014 the majority of the people were not interested in joining Nato. The sentiment changed on NATO only after Putin took Crimea and invaded Donbass. They supported joining the EU. That is a fact.
4. The Maiden Revolution started with protests. The protests lasted for months.
5. The protests expanded when Yanukovych was granted dictatorial powers that made what Trudeau did seem mild. That is a fact.
6. Yanukovych brought in Russians from Crimea and used them as snipers and they shot hundreds of protesters in the streets. They were also used as brutal thugs in the streets. This group was actually banned after Yanukovych fled and his government was disbanded by the parliament. That is a fact.
7. Yanukovych fled to Russia after the people stated they would storm the government on the next day. He and his thugs tried to destroy evidence of his stealing and corruption by dumping the documents in the river. But when the people occupied his multi million dollar house they recovered many of the documents. Yanukovych lived like a king off of his stolen billions while the people lived in poverty. That is a fact.
8. When Ukraine became independent they had the second most resources of any Soviet republic. All of that wealth has been stolen and Ukraine is the second poorest nation in Europe. That is a fact.
9. The majority of Ukrainians want no part of Russia. Putin and the Russians are hated by the majority. That is a fact.
10. NGO's and neocons such as McCain and Nuland did support the protests and pushed it. That is a fact.
11. Corruption has been rampant and billions have been stolen by politicians from Ukraine, the EU and the US. That is a fact.
1. Yanukovych was a stooge of Putin that stole billions of dollars from Ukraine. That is a fact.
2. Yanukovych promised the people of Ukraine that he would sign the EU trade agreement (that the majority of people supported at the time). He lied to them and turned around and signed a major deal with Putin instead. That is a fact.
3. In 2014 the majority of the people were not interested in joining Nato. The sentiment changed on NATO only after Putin took Crimea and invaded Donbass. They supported joining the EU. That is a fact.
4. The Maiden Revolution started with protests. The protests lasted for months.
5. The protests expanded when Yanukovych was granted dictatorial powers that made what Trudeau did seem mild. That is a fact.
6. Yanukovych brought in Russians from Crimea and used them as snipers and they shot hundreds of protesters in the streets. They were also used as brutal thugs in the streets. This group was actually banned after Yanukovych fled and his government was disbanded by the parliament. That is a fact.
7. Yanukovych fled to Russia after the people stated they would storm the government on the next day. He and his thugs tried to destroy evidence of his stealing and corruption by dumping the documents in the river. But when the people occupied his multi million dollar house they recovered many of the documents. Yanukovych lived like a king off of his stolen billions while the people lived in poverty. That is a fact.
8. When Ukraine became independent they had the second most resources of any Soviet republic. All of that wealth has been stolen and Ukraine is the second poorest nation in Europe. That is a fact.
9. The majority of Ukrainians want no part of Russia. Putin and the Russians are hated by the majority. That is a fact.
10. NGO's and neocons such as McCain and Nuland did support the protests and pushed it. That is a fact.
11. Corruption has been rampant and billions have been stolen by politicians from Ukraine, the EU and the US. That is a fact.
This post was edited on 2/27/22 at 10:54 am
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:58 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
So, yeah, it is a *bit* irrational for Russia to be apprehensive to NATO...unless they have ambitions on conquering any country that is not yet in NATO.
Exactly.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:58 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
. Yet the same can’t be said of the corrupted elements in the United States that supported that coup.
Is Russia invading the US?
Or, even better, is Ukraine?
This post was edited on 2/27/22 at 9:59 am
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:59 am to jimmy the leg
quote:
Me personally, I would do whatever was necessary to protect, what was deemed by those in charge, to be our national interests.
Well I'm not a neocon
Posted on 2/27/22 at 9:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
What does the US have to do with Putin's 2022 invasion of Ukraine?
quote:
The West brought this on, deliberately. Not Putin. Not Zelensky. Biden and NATO brought it on!
Biden & Co knew full well Ukraine in NATO would be an intolerant flashpoint for Putin. Putin had made the fact crystal clear.
So in December, Biden had private discussions with Zelensky about NATO. Then he leaked context of those conversations in which he claimed to give the go ahead to Ukraine joining NATO.
Again, there was no question it would be a pretext for Putin to attack.
LINK
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:01 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
So, yeah, it is a *bit* irrational for Russia to be apprehensive to NATO.
Not really. In all actuality, given the history of the region, it is quite logical.
quote:
...unless they have ambitions on conquering any country that is not yet in NATO.
By conquered, I’m assuming that you mean absorbed into Russia, or controlled via a puppet government. I guess we will see in Ukraine how that plays out. What about the other buffer states though?
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That article, again, doesn't address the current government and the Russian response.
It’s irrelevant. From Putin’s perspective all that matters is that he doesn’t have someone in there loyal to him that isn’t going to join NATO.
The US does this all the time. We get upset if the president isn’t a puppet that we can’t control.
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:02 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
What region of the North Atlantic was NATO “defending” during the 20 year occupation of Afghanistan?
Turkey??
Posted on 2/27/22 at 10:03 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:Well that's a red light we ran right through in 2014. Isn't it though?
But that doesn’t give us the green light to intervene.
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